My kids are 10 and 12. Last Christmas, we had our niece and nephew out for a visit along with my SIL. They're going through some crappy family issues right now WRT divorce and custody fights, but as far as SIL knows, they're doing OK. Well, my niece and nephew decided to relieve my children of some of their belongings while they were visiting. Not a big huge deal, my kids are spoiled rotten and have more than they need...but that's not the point. My kids did notice their stuff missing shortly after the others left.

So my 10 year old son calls up his 7 year old cousin, and says he knows just what to say..."Hey D., I hope you're having fun with my Lego men." D'oh, so the little guy admits to stealing...says he feels real bad and he'll give it back next time he sees my son. They live about an hour away so it'll be a while. Actually, never, most likely.

Having been victims of theft, I seriously doubt my children will ever steal anything themselves. They know, it hurts.

Perhaps empathy is an important thing to teach, right alongside ethics.

Prayers for you all, who have misbehaving, thieving children -- I was one, myself. In 1978, I stole Yoda! Got caught, too. Had to give him back and apologize and all that....to this day I can't stand Star Wars. I think that's why!

Oh I used be bad for that sort of stuff as a youngster. Even as a teenager, I was a bit of a tea-leaf. Generally, this involved nicking money, rather than stuff. It would never have occurred to me to take someone's things. But, goin into mum's purse and nicking a couple of quid for cigarettes? Yeah, that was me.

Did do a very short spate of shopliftin as a teenager, mainly make up and the odd bit of cubic-zirconia jewellery from the stands. I remember the first time I saw my best mate lift stuff. We'd been into Whittaker's lookin at the jewellery stands and there was a little cameo brooch that I adored. We got outside and she handed it to me:P I couldn't believe it. I hadn't seen her take it. After that, we used to compete to see who could take the most outrageous stuff.....who could take the most outrageous risks....I got quite good at it. I'm pretty sure I could still go into a shop and come out with stuff and not have a single person see me. It's a skill :P

Of course, I wouldn't do it now. But...when I was in my late teens/early twenties and had no income....well, a pot of nivea was expensive, but absolutely necessary (moisturiser needed for eczema) so I kept that up a lot longer :P At the same time, frankly, it was somewhat necessary to make free with the food shelves of local supermarkets (as I say, living with no income).

As a kid it was more of a game. As an adult it was about survival.

Stealing from individual people though, is slightly different I think. It has more of a personal effect on the victim. I feel far more guilty about the pound coins I took from Ma's purse than for any pair of earrings or pot of nivea that came later. And I don't feel even slightly guilty about the stolen food.

I also had a similar situation with a friend. She was really good at it, where I was usually too afraid of getting caught. Once in a vintage clothing store, I tried on this lovely silk dress. Well, as soon as we got out of the store, she pulled it out of her coat and gave it to me. I could never have afforded it at the time.

MomWithTeen, it's time to start checking his sock drawer for weed and knives.

People don't need to watch as much - There are cameras now and electronic tags...


Wow those are all things I would not have guessed of you. Very telling indeed. I'm surprised that you almost condone stealing from a store versus a person - whats the difference again?

Hang on...let me get you my mailing address.

I wouldn't exactly say I condone it. You are right, however, that I do see a distinct difference between the two. It's about inflicting a personal sense of injury and trespass. Lifting things from shop shelves is still theft, but the sense of personal loss and injury that is present with burglary is not the same.

Do I think that's a sensible way of conducting oneself? *Chuckles* most assuredly not. But I wasn't exactly mainstream when I was young. I've said it before, but I slipped down the rabbit hole somewhere round my mid teens and life didn't really normalise for quite a few years.

Why do you think I am such a calm and (relatively) peaceable person now? That didn't arise from life in suburbia :P

But who owns the shop, Dana? Is there a difference morally between stealing from a mom and pop and stealing from a Wal-Mart?

Thanks wolf - thats what I was thinkin.

This is not meant to be piling on. I'm wondering if this flexible morality also serves a purpose in your politics?

I wouldn't say it's flexible morality. It might well be a different morality to the one you have.

Like I said, I take into account the personal injury aspect of the crime. The relationship between the owner and the stolen item is different depending on the context. The shareholders and board of directors of a major supermarket chain will have a different relationship with a loaf of bread on the shelves of one of their stores, than someone might have with the loaf of bread sitting in their breadbin at home. It's still a loaf of bread. It is still someone else's property. But stealing it would have a dramatically different effect on the victim of that theft in each case.

I think I understand Dana's point. I have friends who have had their houses burgled. It's not just the loss of items, but more a violation of privacy and security. For a business, it's just a financial loss.

Dana, why are you trying to position yourself as some kind of modern Jean Valjean when you were stealing lipsticks and trinkets so you could spend your money on weed or other things you considered essential?

*laughs* I am not attempting to do any such thing. The bread example was just the simplest thing that came to mind as a way of illustrating my point, in answer to questions about the difference I perceive in the different types of crime. As to why I was engaging in such nefarious doings: as I have already said, as a youngster it was something me and mates did for kicks. As a young woman it was somethng I did because I and my partner had no income and both were too proud (stupid) to admit we'd utterly failed at the living in the real world thing and go back to our parents houses as we should have done. I didn't have any money to spend on 'other things I considered more essential'. I survived on what I could beg, borrow or steal and lived one hour to the next.

Now, please don't misunderstand me. I am not in any way suggesting that this was the best response to the situation. Were I to find myself in that situation now, I'd handle it differently. Nor do I look back and see some kind of moral thief taking nothing but bread and cheese. It was what it was. I have done things in my life I am proud of, things I am mildly shamed by and things I am pretty ambivalent about. This stuff I am ambivalent about. I was foolish enough at the time to believe my options to be far more limited than they actually were.