That guy makes as good an example as any: why would an otherwise reputable and decent family man choose to come illegally when he would be able to provide a far "better life for his family" if he were here as a citizen? And why should we not deport him, if there is a long line of people going through the system legally who were in line before him?

No one has answered this question yet, and I don't suspect they will, as long as racial strawmen continue to succesfully deter real progress on this issue.

Your second question answers the first.

So, it's okay to break the law if it will be more convenient for you?

Maybe if I had tried that line with the judge, I wouldn't have to go to community service tonight.

I maintain that a prospective citizen who is willing to respect our laws is far more likely to add value to the society than one who isn't.

So, by association, they MUST all be wetbacks, huh? You really are lacking, MaggieL. Racism isn't your strong suit, it's your ONLY suit.

Your obsession with New Zealand is unhealthy. It seems strange to me that someone who bleats so much about about 'red herrings' and 'straw men' wastes so much effort on lines of argument that are too weak to be called 'cheap shots'.

Do you actually have anything worthwhile to say on the topic, or are you just going to sit on youir fat ass all day, slandering a whole race and anyone that bothers to question your stupidity?

I didn't say that the first answered the second.

Uh, billybob. You're welcome to rant away in the Cellar, but since you're not an American, you're opinion doesn't count, here in the US.

You accuse people of being racist and having a personal animosity/vendetta though your deductions of logic. That's easy to do when it's not your problem, but not necessarrily accurate or productive.

Sometimes a problem/solution is clearer when you stand back far enough to see the big picture, but methinks you are way to far back. :2cents:

It's not an obsession, it's just the focus of pointing out your hypocracy.

You're fine with immigration law when it results in benefits for you personally. When it works against your ill-considered ideas about how we should run our country, suddenly it's racist. And yet the laws of our country and yours are quite similar (ours actally being *more* liberal)...the important difference being that with a country many times the size of yours, with thousands of miles of land borders and an impoverished and repressive regime to the south, enforcing our laws is vastly more difficult.

Which you're pleased to claim as moral superiority. How feeble.
By your lights? No. But that's because you're not listening to anybody who contradicts you.

[HTTP faux pas; deleted double post]

As I said, we won't have direct evidence unless it gets to court, as in the case of the other article...because some twit claimed it was "racist" for a law enforcement officer to investigate a possible violation of law.

But I know Norristown. You don't. Even though you think you do. Only the other day you were flaunting your deep knowlege of US geography to "prove" we don't have illegals here, and that I don't know what I'm talking about. But as you can see, we even have them in our courts claiming they should have a reduced sentence *because* they're illegal.

"We don't have to follow the law...now let us vote."

That's priceless, coming from you. It's fairly obvious from your distorted replies to my posts that you are more interested in trying to discredit me on matters of zero relevance than in paying attention and debating like an intelligent adult.

I'd put you on my ignore list, but you amuse me. How someone of your age can have accumulated so few social skills makes you an interesting case study, unique amongst the many Americans that I talk to. I've never come across anyone, from any country, who is so determined to be obnoxious to a stranger simply because they ask her to back up her ignorance with quantifiable evidence.

How immigration law in my country compares to immigration law in your country is of "zero relevance" only as a way of protecting your thesis that "those who want US immigration law enforced must all be bigots and racists" from closer inspection.

Another distortion from MaggieL.

I've asked a few people here to back up statements that they have made.For some reason, that makes me the Great Foreign Liberal Satan in MaggieL's eyes.Perhaps because she is a racist bitch, perhaps because she is something else.I really don't care. Nowhere in any of the threads have I argued that illegal immigration is not an issue, nor have I argued that it shouldn't be enforced. What I have done is to try and rationalise a lot of the astoundingly shallow statements made by people like MaggieL, so that I may understand the 'problem' fully and decide on my private opinion.Unfortunately, this is unacceptable to MaggieL, her opinion must be accepted as gospel because she lives there and I don't. Frankly, MaggieL's little corner of the US is of little interest to me as a absolute microcosm of the situuation.She may well think that her neighborhood is typical of the US, but it isn't.

How does racism get into the illegal alien issue? What kind of idiot brings race into it?
It is so simple, want into the country, do it legally... hell it is cheaper than paying the goons that sneak people into the US and a hell of a lot safer.
You get the added bonus of not being a slimy little criminal.

I have refrained from putting up my stance yet, but... here goes nothing.

Immigration should be enforced properly. However, entering the country and becoming a citizen should be a simpler process, making it possible for legal immigration to be nearly as easy as the daunting task of sneaking in and staying in, hidden from the government. Illegals already in the country should be punished but not deported. Instead, the government should try to make it possible for the illegals already here to make their existance in the USA legal.

I agree with rkzenrage, this is not a race issue. Yes, a lot of illegal immigrants in the USA are Mexican, I'm not blind or stupid. But not all are. Immigration is not about race, it's about coming into the country. What I said should apply to Canadians, Mexicans, Chinese, British, Zimbabweans, Papua New Gueneans or anyone else who wants into the country. But still, since I'm sure some prejudiced sod's gonna try to call me racist somehow, I will make it known that my girlfriend is half-mexican. So fuck you if immigrant means Mexican in your brain, I'm far from racist.