rkzenrage - it's too bad you're so far away; I'd really like to learn that. I don't think that a book is a substitute for hands-on training (if I can even find the book).

P.S. I'm relatively new to this site, but I've read a few posts where you mention health issues. Is this discussed in more detail somewhere? I'm not morbidly curious, but I think it might help me with a deeper perspective.

Why didn't you reply to this?
It was a perfectly reasonable response to your post.
I set you up perfectly to take-me-down! Show-me-tha'-light!
Just put your superior point into words, clearly, logically, showing me how it is freedom and does not violate my rights and is not you trying to force me to your way of thinking and is best for everyone and safer for me with an intruder in my home or with me being disabled at the mercy and whim of the world, unable to run away from any situation... it was all yours dude and you just let it go, WHY?... LOL!

Unfortunatley I am really unable to to it too many times and would be unable to do it enough to teach you.
Honestly, the book is really good and, as long as you really pay attention to what it says, it does a great job.
One of my dreams has been to own a Peacemaker & now I can't use it like it deserves... sucks.
I am friends with the direct descendants of the Henry clan.
You should see some of the weapons they own... it hurts they are so beautiful! My wife was best friends with them in school.

Heelllloooooooo?
C-mom pierce... its your time! Time to shine, finally, a perfect opening, time to finally, logically, succinctly, absolutely, refute the gun owning argument once and for all, without all that emotional blather that has been getting in everyone else's way... I set you up man!
Here you go!

All he can say is "rights don't exist unless "society" gives them to you without anything to back up his claims. He denies the very existence of rights. You can't reason with someone who is unreasonable.

rkz - my stepfather collected guns - primarily Winchester shotguns and rifles, I think. I don't know where they all went after he died a few years ago. (I just did a google search and see that he was Michigan Trap Association Doubles Champion a couple of times. I also saw a Model 21 that he commissioned, for sale for $63,000.)

He was the one who introduced me to guns, and, with one exception, all the guns I have came from him. Unfortunately, I could never get the hang of skeet shooting, but I was an "expert rifleman" in the military.

The guys and I invented a skeet called rugby at lunchtimes on the ranch. No time now, but I'll tell you about it later.

Dont own a gun, but i would get one, i enjoy shooting.

i own a browning .40 cal beretta but hid the clips when i went on vacation

the only problem is i hid them so damned well that i can't find them

what a moron:redface:

nitro 1364, Did you check the underwear drawer?

yeah, no dice

of course i'm not looking for dice so i suppose thats a good thing

How about the freezer?

It is like talking to a religious fundamentalist.
"Prove to me that God exists"
"It says so in The Bible."

"Prove to me that rights exist"
"it says so in the constitution."

Once again, we are not born with rights because they are human made. You have said before that animals don't have rights but we do. That implies that we are somewhat better than animals which is also laughable to anyone that knows anything about biology. You said that human rights came with the first human. You clearly don't understand evolution because species are constantly changing to fit in with their environments so there isn't a changing point.

It is like saying when does a boy become a man. There is no point when it happens, you have to put an artificial time on it. You would have to do the same thing if you wanted rights to pop out of nowhere.

Also, you are just changing definitions to fit YOUR perspective on how we should live. You guys are turning into brainwashed fundies.

You misunderstood me. You are forcing the idea that everyone has a right to own guns when it is a local social right instead of universal. If a society says that you don't have a right to own guns and are perfectly happy in living that way, you are saying they are wrong and should change.

We have the right to be free? That is too broad to be used in an argument because freedom encompasses basically everything. The thought that you can do anything you want is ridiculous and the irony of social restraints is enormous.

To take it from another direction, PH; do you have the right to live?

If your local town decided one day that in order to maintain order, you had to be randomly killed, because there were too many people living in your area. Would you go to the killing station and accept your fate because some form of society said so?

In reality, we have no rights but our society invented "the right to live" to keep stablility and avoid chaos. I agree with the idea of rights in most aspects, I am just disagreeing that they are natural and they are universal.

I would rebel and and not accept to be killed but I am also not saying we should ban guns either.