I read your posts lookout, and my heart goes out to you seriously. I hope she goes through with the tests, cause from what you say it does sound like chemical imbalance. I am distant and sometimes cold to my husband to steel myself for the coming heartache. And she is doing her best to push you away, cause she can't leave herself. If she could(and what you say of her she sounds like she very well could) she would have and settled everything else from a friends house. IMHO, she is disappointed in herself, something she has thought or been thinking as changed her outlook on her "life". It feels inadequate, not up to the "good" life she has been dreaming of, and it sucks. It is prime midlife crisis age, the omg so many things ive missed out on, so many things left to do. Don't smother her, it will only make it worse. Just love her the way you did when things were fine. There is nothing worse than when your trying to hack your way through some heavy shit, than having your SO throw his damn feelings in the mix too, as if you didn't know how he felt about loosing you. She didn't come to the decision lightly, and it probably took some effort to bring it up. This is going to sound strange but RELAX, enjoy the time you have with her. Continue to encourage the therapist options, but don't freak on her, she needs you to be strong, cause at this point in time she isn't she looks and sounds the part, but she probably isn't. That is the best I can give. I hope i don't sound stupid, and I hope it helps. I wish you the best.

About me huh. My parents seperated when I was 3, my dad visited every weekend and him and my mom slept in the same bed until he died when I was 13. They never leagaly divorced, and neither one ever got a steady bf or gf and never remarried. Our therapist finds this strange also. I am a pleaser, I love to please and I love to know that I am pleasing someone. Thereby making me a flirtatious person, I am however a very shy girl around new people. I have only loved 2 people in this world(besides family), including Mr. Chimmi.

How do you get to that point. I am at my best when I'm alone. I am emotional but in 10 yrs(6 married) my husband has seen me "emotionally open" maybe 3 times(his words). I have had no drug use(serious drug use) or never been in an abusive relationship. Mr. Chimms would say I am emotionally unavailable. My philosphy on men, I love you and would really like you to stay but I don't need you. Men enrich my life they don't make my life. My husbands is the opposite in his words, I am his world. My husband bends to my will and whim with barely a fight or an effort. I don't know if you can understand how horrible this is to me. Its like having a relationship with myself. I am a child with no boundries. I could talk him into most anything, and he would give it to me to please me. He gives me things to keep me when he was never in danger of me leaving. Now we wonder can that change? Was he always like this, with me yes for the most part, no one else though. I want him to have the comfort in our marriage that I have, and I want the love he feels for me to be what I feel for him. He is a great husband and father, I am not what he deserves, and he is a glutton for pain, so it falls on me to make it quick or prolong it.

My outside life, hmm. We do things, go places, things like that, we don't just sit around and do nothing. Our therapist says to get out and do things so we are trying. Does this trouble make me more receptive to outside influence, I would be lying if i said no. I am not an idiot who can be easily persuaded by shiny things, so it won't be a he said I have a firm apple heiney, so fuck it lets make it, kinda thing. Have I had an affair, no, but its not for lack of trying, no i'm fucking with you, or am I? No I haven't but it makes it easier for me to justify it, and to feel a lot less guilt over it. I also made a promise, that I would stay faithful to him until the day I stop being his wife. Believe me its hard men smell a wounded relationship like cougars smell sick animals, and it always seems like the reasons not to continue on, are the only reasons you see and are given. Like you have to work to find and see the good stuff.

He isn't the main source of trouble I have played my part, I have given in when I should have stood firm. I should have been more open, instead I hardened my heart and went into survival mode. I should have helped him through his fears, his feelings of inadequacies(sp?) instead I ridculed them and debased them.

Thanks, chimmichunga! I truly appreciate your trying to help me understand this. If nothing else, is confirms my theory about why one of my serious relationships foundered. She married a guy that she will never be able to completely please. :o

As a matter of fact, no I don't think you know how he feels about losing you. That first sentence of yours that I quoted has got to be one of the more callous things, I've ever read.

Like, "Would you please stop bothering me with the fact that I am causing you pain? This is all about MY pain! Mine, mine, mine!

And the dude WAS obviously in danger of you leaving, since you, in fact, are. You want him to have the comfort of being with someone who loves him without bothering to return the favor yourself. Your words make me think of the attitude of an ex-boyfriend of mine who was fooling around on me. "I'm fine with things the way they are. What's wrong with YOU?"

I very much doubt your husband is a glutton for pain. He is doing everything he can to make things work and have you stay around because he loves you. I'm sure he would be delighted to love you sans pain.

You come off as arrogant at best, heartless at worst.

Either decide the man and your two kids are worth it to you and give it your best shot, or else walk out and be done with it. Everyday you linger on, knowing damn well there's nothing in it for you, only increases the emotional damage to him and, possibly, the kids, as well.

My sig line refers to a man who has an outlook much like yours.

Jeez, Lookout, if you wife has this same attitude, run for the hills! :eyebrow:

Not that you asked Chimi, but then you did post to the cellar so, there ya go.

From your post above, your thereapist sounds like a noob. You and your husband don't need to go "do things" He needs to go do things that don't involve or consider you. not in a mean way, but in a "get a life" way.

What fucking pressure on you to be his world. jesus, who'd want that responsibility, no wonder you're emotionally unavailable.

"Gone to lunch, back as soon as you don't *need* me"

As for the guys who can smell a wounded relationship like cougars smelling a sick animal, would you really want to give up the candy to some ass who can only bag a wounded critter and hasn't got the stamina for the real chase?

But you aren't that kind of gal.

Maybe there is a middle ground where you don't have to ridicule and debase (let's face it though, who can't resist a good kick when they're down?) and you don't have to mollycoddle either.

Mostly, it sounds like you both need independance. Not liberty, nor license. My folks had a similar relationship to your folks. Inexplicable yes, but it worked for them. Not all of us fit into the disney model of interpersonal bliss.

Create your own theme park.

Also, please post pictures of your "firm apple heiney". I'm not exactly sure I've ever seen such a thing.

To be sure, I was significantly happier and better off after my parents got divorced (I was 9,) but that's because it was no secret how miserable they made each other. It can definitely fuck up younger kids if it comes completely out of left field.

Oh, ouch. Okay, calm down, its not as bad as you took it. If I sounded callous that is what my truth usually sounds like (I felt no need to sugar coat it). I simply meant that it's understood that shes causing heartache to him and and in my situation,I regret it to the very core of me, If I could forget and lose myself in him I would, in a heartbeat. But If you let him throw all his emotion into yours someones going to break. By either saying fine anything to make it stop, I will concede, or fuck it anything is better than this psycho person. I was not saying suffer in silence, just to find self comfort, try and have conversations always, if you feel like your spinning your wheels, end conversation and try later on. Thats all I meant, you will probably think that is horrible too but that's ok, I've been called worse( but heartless did hurt a little bit, even from a stranger). When I said danger of losing me, that was throughout the relationship, not about what is happening now. I never said I was a genius at explaining things, but I am much better at it in person(IMHO).

Therapy was more than "do stuff" I just didn't go into full details, it would be boring, but then again there was some sex talk, and a midget. I do want to keep my marriage, I am giving it my best, and Mr. chimm does need some independence from me, he might find that I am a callous stuck up bitch, and he could do better. No I don't want a "fling" but I will not be marrying again, at least not from where I stand now. I just met you so no heiney photos, that takes at least 2 weeks ;)

As Footfootfoot noted, you did post to the Cellar and not some touchy, feely support group. Rock on, and you don't need to send ME any pictures of ANYTHING. :cool:

chimmichunga, thanks again for your honesty.
Do you think if you doted a little he might feel more secure and back off a little with the smothering behavior?
Or maybe flat out say, "look, I love you, I'm not leaving, so relax and stop smothering me".
Possible? :confused:

Bruce, I've been around the marriage/LTR block more than once - to the point where I'm weary of making the trip. I've been on both sides of the equation we've been talking about. What I've noticed is that when a couple begins to get this polarized, its almost impossible to undo the damage. All that happens is that they get further and further into their opposite corners. The one who is feeling smothered is afraid to let the walls down for a second for fear the other's emotion will pour in like the ocean through the break and they'll end up drowned. The one who needs some reassurance feels that if they let go, their partner will vanish never to be seen again. It takes two very self aware people to work this impasse through. We pick partners (subconsciously) who will have the greatest difficulty giving us what we most need. Our partners demand from us the one thing that we feel it impossible to give. Until we do some inner work and begin to figure out why we place ourselves in these spots over and over again, we'll never be able to resolve anything with the people we chose as partners.

I've been around the block a few times myself. I was asking questions to get a better insight into the baggage issue, because being a man, I don't have any. :lol2:

Yeah, you men just carry OUR luggage! :lol:

Wow I go away for a couple weeks and look what happens. 1st, Lookout - I am really sorry for all your pain, but after going through something sort of similar, I say get your son and take care of him and ask her to leave. If she wants her freedom or to sperad her "wings" let her. JUst not with him or you or your home. It is so important at this time for him to feel comfortable and to be in "his" normal surroundings. The worst thing would be to make changes in his living environment because your wife is blankin nuts or whatever. I remember vividly what my father told me when I explianed that I was getting divorced. "You guys are adults and frankly I don't care about how you mess up your lives. The kids are the only thing I care about right now." From that and in the subsequent weeks and months, I realized how right he was!!!! Concentrate on what is most important - YOUR SON! Take care of him and move on. Good luck & God Bless!

I have said this very sentence and still the panic, and questions. I have said to him all I can say. At least in my mind I have, I don't know what else to do other than saying what i have to say listening to his side and looking for common ground. I am not a touchy, feely person exactly. So I probably don't dote on him enough, physically. Good suggestion, and I don't mind.

The one who is feeling smothered is afraid to let the walls down for a second for fear the other's emotion will pour in like the ocean through the break and they'll end up drowned-Marchiko

Yeah, something like that.

You cannot fill a bottomless pit. I understand this better than I wish I did. Sometimes, two people are just wired so differently, there's no way to stay sufficiently connected to keep one or the other happy or secure. It is a painful struggle.

Damn Patrick, you just keep hitting on things that soo relate to my current struggle as well. "Sometimes, two people are just wired so differently, there's no way to stay sufficiently connected to keep one or the other happy or secure." Thats how my YW and I are/were. I'm just trying to deal with this being alone all the time. Lookout I believe it will get better and since I've read your thread since the beginning, you have to do the same. I'm starting a new phase in my life at 41 and I realize already that I am very glad I didn't wait any longer. It takes a lot of time and effort. At least by starting now I have more of that time and you'll need it too. Focus on the future & your son and DO NOT LOOK BACK. You aren't the problem and your outlook IS the solution! Best to you & your son.

I know it may sound cold, but lots of people have survived divorce (me included) and found happiness on the other side. hang in there Lookout - it will get better eventually, and if you have to you can move on and love again, perhaps even stronger than before (speaking from experience).

Dang. Sorry about the divorce, lookout. I have friends who are currently going through the same thing -- he decided he found someone who "got" him, and that was far more important than his wife and kids.

chimmi, it's not my place to judge you. But you might consider what a vow is, and the reasons that a serious one is important. Does that mean that you are condemned to a life of boredom (or whatever it is that you're feeling) with no escape? No, it means that sometimes living for someone else is a richer existence than always thinking about "what am *I* getting out of this?" It's all relative to one's outlook. If everyone decided to get a divorce as soon as they weren't having their "needs" fulfilled, the divorce rate would skyrocket.


:right:

would?

yeah, the sarcastic face at the bottom is in lieu of:

"Oh wait. The divorce rate is already through the roof."

I went for 10 of the 17 years I was married "without having my needs fulfilled." And now just months later, I am infinitely happier, my children are relieved not to hear the fighting and screaming all the time, and my ex is actually tolerable - in small doses of course. I'm sorry, but after her cheating on me repeatedly, lying to me consistently, and stealing checks and money from me too many times to count, I think it was a very painful necessity. Sticking around for "The kids, my "Roman Catholic" religious obligations or my morals only cost me another five years of my/our lives. If I had known what I know now - I'd definitely have left years ago and all would have been the better for it!

Wow, I have been perusing the web trying to get some insight into my own situation and definitely stumbled into alot of insight!

Lookout, I am so sorry for your anguish. I can only imagine how difficult it must be for you.
Like Chimmi, I am having trouble in my marriage as well. I have a devoted husband who declares that he loves me and still gets butterflies. I have no end of compliments to my body and our physical relationship. Yet, I just wish he would leave me alone and let me go. We have so little to talk about and when we do, we argue about the most stupid things. I am hoping that I feel lost, suffocated, and drowning simply because of depression. We live within a stone's throw of his parents (a new development) which does not help at all. I really detest the area in which we live and don't enjoy his parents, who are a large part of his life. My two boys are my light and joy and I have stayed home with them since their births. In fact, I have homeschooled them for 5 years. If it weren't for them, I think I would have left already. Who knows?

We are all so different and handle fear, disappointments, regrets and resentments differently. Have you asked you wife what she really wants out of life? Sometimes it's hard to face what we want because it sounds selfish. As women, society tends to make us feel that only bitches are selfish and look out for their own needs. Maybe in some way she is living that out? Bottom line, you do need to look out for your needs and those of your son. Children are remarkably resilient - we weren't fragile teacups and neither are our children. All they want is to be loved and have some semblance of safety. Good luck to you!

Welcome to the Cellar, Becca. :D
Hope you find some answers here. Also hope you stick around long enough to find some questions too.

Bruce, you and your damn insightful tidbits just keep my overactive mind filling with more questions than can be answered. I get an answerto one and three more are generated. I keep ending up with more questions than answers.......................and I love it!

It's all part of what Cellarites do for, and too, each other.
I'm just a little.....ok, fat little,..... cog in the wheel. :D

Funny I should finally read this. My sister waited until just after Xmas to serve divorce papers on HER husband. The same one that I had to have a "discussion" with about his habit of expressing his temper through his fists. Took damn long enough, eleven years if my memory serves.

Sheesh.

Brian

well, the hellacious ride is still going. she demanded that i give in to her desire for a divorce a few weeks back and i did. immediately the word "divorce" left her vocabulary. it was replaced by "separation". i haven't heard that much lately either.

she did start a full blown psych eval - so did i, to make it easier for her. i was a little disappointed that he said i am well adjusted and do not need to explore anything further. we did the initial interview then the 17 bazillion question survey, then the follow up interview to look at the survey results. she has been pissed ever since. i was amazed at how thorough he was with me in looking at the results of the paper test in only 15 minutes. Mrs Lookout spent 45 minutes with him doing the same and he asked for further sessions. i have no idea (because she didn't sign the consent form) what he is pursuing or what he has found... whatever it is has her spooked though. they called her yesterday to schedule her follow up session - I'd already booked mine and she promptly withdrew from the process and got a little nasty with the Doc. she got more than a little nasty with me with the central theme that "nothing is wrong with me. if there was, i'd know it! he just wants to take more of your money!" (i'm stroking checks for all this. i'd gladly continue doing so.)**

apparently the only thing in the world wrong in her life is that she doesn't have time. no time to spend with LIttle Lookout. i remind her that i've been trying to get her to cut her hours drastically or quit working for some time - she freaks out about me wanting to force her into dependency so she will forever be trapped in a miserable marriage...

yeah, a fun day.

**
as a side note - the Doc is awesome. i just realized that he is only charging me @ 1/2 of his normal rates and has been scheduling our appointments on his days off to fit them into Mrs LOokout's schedule. when she withdrew i told him i'd still be there for my session and he promptly stated he doesn't want my money and he isn't going to waste my time and money on a session i don't need BUT he wants to still meet with me JUST IN CASE we can still get her to show up for appointment. he offered not to charge unless she shows up. i'm pretty impressed. obviously for confidentiality reasons he can't disclose anything, but we had a conversation about listening to "what he says and doesn't say" and drawing the appropriate conclusions. he basically said that YES he has identified something real, significant, treatable. although it wouldn't be "fixed" over night it could be patched up so that real work can be done. sounds like he found something that meds would help with to me. but what the hell do i know? i'm just a glutton for punishment.

DRAG her ass KICKING and SCREAMING to this DR !!!!!!
FUCK HER !!!
Its about your son !!!

Interesting that she refuses to continue. Sounds like you two are getting more the "psych" part of the evaluation than the "neuro" part or at least you are, anyhow, Lookout. The psychologist never gave me so much as the teensiest hint on how I was doing on all the various tests. I knew I was in for the full barrage of them though, because what they were most concerned about in my case was finding possible neurological damage. Sounds as though Mrs. L flipped that they wanted her to do extra testing more then what they asked of you. That's the bad news. At least the doctor believes he could help if she would co-operate.

Think about this, Lookout. Do you really want to stay with and have your son raised by someone who in her heart knows that she has some difficulty that COULD be treated, but refuses that treatment? You're an adult, and if you choose to be a glutton for punishment, that's your free choice, but should the boy have to sign on for that, as well?

Just something to think about.

Some people have it in their heads that meds are only for loonies or psychos. It is curious one sister is being treated though...

She may change her mind, though, hopefully. One of the first stages of going through a major deal is denial. It could pass. Lookout, I do admire you for your patience and persistence. Keep on hanging in there! You don't know if it will all work out if you don't try, and you already have so much invested in this relationship - time, a child, your heart...and of course, there's her too. We don't know how much she is really hurting, it could be much more than she is willing to show, or admit to herself, much less to anyone else. I tried very hard to hide any pain and doubt when I decided that I "knew" I wanted to divorce my husband. At times, I regret the decision I made eight years ago. Ms. Lookout could very well be trying to do something that she would regret in time. Stay strong! You're doing fantastic!! And you will never regret that you tried your hardest.

Good advice Brett's Honey's advice. Its hard to encourage someone to do something they don't want to do. All you can do is keep trying and see what you can make happen. But your doing a stand up job, and thats saying something. So good luck Mr. Lookout.

As you no doubt know, she will find some problem that cannot be solved to blame. it si the "yes, but" game. or catch 22. the only thing that can help is X, but that would mean Y, which is untenable.
I think you may have entered the "humor her" phase of this journey.

You sound like you are doing the right things. keep strong.

yeah. don't know what to say. we had a long ago scheduled family vacation in disneyland from friday until earlier today. obviously with all that is going on and not going on that should have logically been cancelled. mrs lookout begged everyone (my family) to carry on, so we did. we were to leave mid afternoon on friday after she got off work. late afternoon we still hadn't heard from her. she came home smashed. she had left work and went to the PGA event. she was spoiling for a fight but i held my temper and calmly told her that i was disappointed she would have so little respect for me, our family, etc. i told her she could stay home or climb in the truck to head to disney - her choice. either way, the rest of us were going because i wasn't going to disappoint little lookout. she got in the truck and "went to sleep".

she woke up pretending nothing had happened and life was grande. we had a great weekend until last night when we were packing to head back to phoenix. the claws came out and the "i need a divorce" chick was there.

she has told me a few times that she hasn't hired an attorney, etc. i knew she'd met with one a couple of times (she said once). he left a voicemail on our home number while we were gone. dumbass. i checked the voicemail and gave her the message. she visibly braced herself for the fight and then almost fell on her face when my only comment was "let me know what is going on with your attorney - i don't see any reason to pay courier fees just to have me officially served". she fell all over herself with the "i haven't decided anything... nothing has been discussed... i don't have a schedule..."

whatever. i don't know what the truth is and i probably never will. i'll meet with my attorney tomorrow to tie up some loose ends. i've written off all the money that i know is in savings (about 6 months pay! damn by the book financial planners :rolleyes: ). neither of us has done anything to jeopardize custody. she makes as much as i do, so no spousal support, i won't fight for the house, but it is a community property state so i'll get half the equity. unless her lawyer is a REAL sleezebag there isn't a whole lot to argue about.

of course, i still want to repair the marriage and get her professional help for what seems like an obvious emotional/chemical/psych problem - and i will continue to pay for that if she is willing to seek help rather than file for divorce.

the worst part is the not knowing. it would be so much easier to put a bandage on the wound and tell her to draw up the divorce papers and get on with what life may bring me.

unfortunately, easier is not necessarily better. i still love her and will continue to fight for her as long as she is my wife.

damn it Lookout. you dont deserve this shit.

My concern would be little Lookout - if she is presenting emotional/chemical/psych problems, then the question of NOT jeopardizing the little one could become sticky.... How can anyone be sure in that type of situation? Is she claiming that the behaviour she exhibits is caused solely by her desires to have a new life? Does she act out in front of Little Lookout?
Often times when we are unhappy with ourselves we tend to blame everyone and everything around us for our problems.
Have you considered a possible bi-polar or depression issue? My ex was bi-polar and some of what you write seems eerily familiar...

She's gotten a psych eval that we can reasonably assume is abnormal. That jeapordizes custody in a big way if you call the psychiatrist to testify.

I'm assuming you're differentiating between alimony and child support, right? Because the parent with primary custody could make a million dollars a week and the non-custodial parent would still owe child support.

Keep fighting the good fight, man.

Recently diagnosed mental illness, or even a longstanding history of mental illness does not negatively impact custody unless there have been clear child endangerment issues related to the illness.

(I know a lot of people that shouldn't be raising corn, much less kids that retain custody.)

according to the attorney if i am stroking the checks for tuition, medical, etc directly, i won't be paying her a dime and she won't pay me anything.

the psych eval is not completed because she hasn't finished her interviews - but either way there is no criminal conduct so there is no reason to drag the psychologist into court.

Retain custody from the state, or retain custody from their demonstrably sane, employed and upstanding ex?

Lookout, I have an acquaintance who is going through a nasty custody battle with his ex wife who has been diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder. The psychological evaluation of her has played a major factor in the court's decision making process, and it looks as though this man will be awarded full custody of his kids, so don't automatically discount any psych evaluations that your wife might ultimately recieve.

I gotta agree with Clodfobble - sure there's lots of folks running around who shouldn't even be allowed to raise a colony of bacteria on a petri dish and still have kids, but most of those folks do not have children with a responsible other parent who fought them for custody.

If a friend had made the following statements to you over the past couple of months, what would you advise him to do on behalf of both himself and his son?

Earth to Lookout: The woman has a serious drinking problem and should not have sole custody of a 4 year old boy. Fight for your son with all the ammunition at your disposal!

no one is talking about sole custody - for me or her. at this point we have tentatively agreed upon me picking him up from school on tuesday and keeping him until saturday at 3 when she gets off work. with occasionally picking him up for a few hours after school on friday afternoons. that means that majority of the time would be with me.

that also means that if she chooses to continue pretending she is 22 she can party all she wants tuesday through friday.

it isn't perfect, but know court would award sole custody to me and honestly i don't want her to be pushed out of his life. he loves his mother. unless there is a genuine concern for his safety then i won't battle over that.

both

hey all you legal experts - i need some info pretty quickly... does it matter who serves who with divorce papers? does it matter what the initial decree says? or is it just a starting point for negotiations with no real lasting importance.

i have my reasons for not wanting to be the one to file, but i know that i am going to be served some time this week or early next week. the terms in the decree are not what was previously discussed. if this is important i'm going to need to get into my lawyer's office first thing monday morning to, for lack of a better term - "strike first". i really don't want to do that.

First off, I'm not a legal expert. I don't know anything about the law other than to know that the law does not necessarily follow the path you think it would. Our legal system is based on English common law meaning that case history becomes incorporated into the interpretation of statutory law. That is to say that prior court decisions are given great deference in deciding subsequent cases. This can produce justice or, in some cases, injustice. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the specifics of your situation will outweigh the effect of prior decisions rendered in cases similar to yours but which, when applied to your case, would produce a counterintuitive outcome.

I have done everything but beg you to hire a lawyer. Hire a goddamn lawyer and leave the tough questions to them. There is much at stake and you have, in my legally ignorant opinion, the upper hand. Do not piss it away by playing softball.

Trust me. If you continue to play nice, you are in for a royal asswhoopin.

[quote=lookout123]hey all you legal experts - i need some info pretty quickly... does it matter who serves who with divorce papers? /QUOTE]

No legal advice here, but I do have a little "been there" advice. My husband would have anyway...many times he has said he wishes he would have filed first. Keeping the home and full custody of the girls are the main reasons he has for that..and getting at least some of his stuff!
He held back for the exact same reasons you are, he wasn't giving up,and didn't want a divorce, but in hindsight, he wished he'd filed first. He still kicks himself for not filing first, even though he got the girls, (after a terrible 1 1/2 year custody battle).
If there's any doubt at all, I'd say - go file first.

beestie - i have spoken with an attorney (about 3 weeks ago) and will meet with him on monday morning. the question is mainly about who serves who and if it matters.

Probably it does at some level, even if it's a psychological edge. A lot will depend on whether you are in a no-fault divorce state, or if you need provable grounds (adultery, alienation of affections, shit like that).

And, if you are in a provable grounds state, beware of what shit your wife will fling. Filing first might head some of that off at the pass.

You fix things up, you can always drop the suit.

it is a no fault state. the term is that the marriage is "irretrievably broken". no further detail needed.

Not your problem, but PA has a little wrinkle. Divorce procedure is determined by "local custom", every county is different. The lawyers and judges in each county get together and decide how divorces will be handled. They just make it up! No uniformity and damn little law....they just make it the fuck up. :mad:

Well, I divorced somebody in Phoenix. It hardly makes me an expert, but I have worked for a lot of lawyers and I believe that it does not matter who serves who first as far as any legal advantage in a no-fault state with community property. All it accomplishes is to establish the order in which the case is described. Instead of Mary Jones is granted a divorce from John Jones, it will read John Jones is granted a divorce from Mary Jones. Now is not the time to worry over niceties. There is no "divorce etiquette" that you should be thinking about when dealing with a person as unstable as your Mrs. Have your lawyer prepare the papers, then inform her that you will be filing them in "x" number of days so if she wants to do it she has until then or it is your show.

thanks for the input. this isn't about niceties. i won't go in to why i do not want to serve her, but it is extremely important to me. i will be speaking with my attorney again in the morning, but unless i hear that i will be bent over by letting her serve me with her ridiculous requests, then i will continue to wait.

the on again, off again psych eval is back on again. she has an appointment for friday. she grows louder each day with her protests and claims that there is absolutely nothing wrong with her. i don't understand how she can honestly believe that her attitudes and behaviors are consistant with those of the past,but...

I think I understand. I have felt the same way. Divorce or otherwise you will have to live with yourself forever. For something that is extremely important to you, you should trust your instinct.
Don't make the mistake of conflating her statements about her actions and behavior with her honest belief. She may well know it's off and deny it (loudly and repeatedly). Or just as likely, she may be in honest denial and honestly believe it. Denial is a potent force in human behavior and belief.

whether she knows it or not - there is something very real wrong with her. this isn't just a "i don't love my husband anymore" situation. yes i know those happen. yes i am aware that even if she gets help for whatever this is that she won't necessarily ever love me again. i may be dumb, but i'm not stupid.

my hope and desire is to rebuild our lives and build a strong and lasting marriage. but even more than that i need her to be healthy because she may stop being my wife, but she will always be my son's mother. the sun rises and sets with her smile and a kind word. he deserves a better upbringing than she received. so if i put a lot of work and effort into helping (dragging) her into health and still lose my wife... well, my son's future is more important than my present anyway.

In my humble, unknowing opinion, I think this is the most important thing to focus on.

I, and I'm sure other lurkers, continue to wish you the best and the greatest strength possible, lookout.

Lookout! Lookout, for weeks my ex-wife kept saying lets not do this, lets stay together, and so on then 1 day out of the blue I get served for support, marital asset dissolution, custody and divorce - all four at once!
It can be important to the courts who actually files, so go and do whatever is necessary and best for your boy and do it quickly if not immediately. My ex is a depressed bi-polar, really messed up person, so I kinda understand where you're coming from - Keep focused on your son. It sucks, but it will get better with time. Good luck with all of this!

met with the attorney today. he says that there is no legal advantage or disadvantage to being the plaintiff vs respondent in arizona. it only signifies whose name is first on the paperwork. although she is claiming significantly less than i do, the documentation doesn't support that. and in the end, i will fight for primary custody and i don't care if i ever get a penny of child support. she would have to significantly alter/end her career to provide the day to day care for our son that i can do. because of the relatively short duration of our marriage alimony is a non-issue.

i have my reasons to wait. as much as i hate being reactive, i have my reasons.

Good luck, lookout.

Just passin along info tryin to help, I'm in PA so I guess its different here. How long have you been married? Sorry if that was in an earlier post and I missed it. My wife who was too st*p*id to be able to last more than two weeks at any job finally decided to just stay home. I've been working like a dog to provide for the family and then she claims that I abandoned "them" because I'm working all the time?!?!?!?!?!?

Yesman- abandonment in a marriage in PA constitutes the following:
For all practical purposes, desertion and abandonment are one and the same. .There are two elements that have to be present in order to constitute desertion: the willful desire or the intent to desert and the cutting off of the marital relationship. In Pennsylvania, the abandonment has:
continued for 12 uninterrupted months;
must be deliberate and final;
beyond any reasonable expectation of reconciliation.
There are two types of desertion-actual desertion and constructive desertion.
Actual is when your spouse packs bags, books, and toothpaste, walks out the door, moves into another abode, and stays there, he or she is guilty of actual desertion. The spouse voluntarily leaves and has no plans to return except perhaps to pick up a forgotten belonging.
ConstructiveIf your spouse's behavior is so cruel that you find yourself dialing suicide prevention, you can leave and charge your spouse with constructive desertion. Constructive desertion is basically defined as one person leaving the relationship-not necessarily the home. nonperformance of other marital duties as to practically destroy the home life. The denial of sex alone does not constitute desertion. The spouse also has to stop carrying out the mutual responsibilities of the marital relationship. engagind in conduct that endangers a spouse's life, safety, health, and even self-respect (although an isolated assault or two will not necessarily constitute cruelty unless the act was particularly severe and atrocious).

More info obtained concerning PA Law @ http://www.divorcelawinfo.com

I hope this helps....unfortunately I do have some experience on this topic... if you need more info you can PM me.