From USA Today of 9 Mar 2006: What was the bombing of London? Homegrown. What were attacks in Indonesia? Homegrown. Or more accurately, inspired by a George Jr crusade called "War to create Terror".

How can this be? George Jr told us these are all Al Qaeda. The president would not lie. Clearly this Spanish investigator must read too much propaganda from tw.

Welcome to a lawn of dandelions - a concept called Muslim Brotherhood. What George Jr calls a cohesive, nefarious, and ever scheming Al Qaeda. Lurking in every shadow to kill us all.

Or maybe it’s really called "War to Create Terror". Funny how every orange alert arrived just in time to avert a George Jr drop in the polls.

Welcome to a concept better known as Muslim Brotherhood – and not to be confused with an Egyptian political party of same name.

Another example of what happens when hype and fear are promoted excessively. Just another reason why we are suppose to gain experience and therefore intelligence by learning from history. From ABC News of 11 Mar 2006: Mayfield is a lawyer in Oregon who was accused of handling explosives in Madrid. He was locked up without judicial review or even lawyer representation for two weeks due to more hype and fear - the Patriot Act. They even confiscated his child's Spanish homework as communicatons with Madrid conspirators. It took weeks just to get someone to translate that Spanish homework - to learn what these messages really said. No, this is not a 21st Century Keystone Cops story. They were that incompentant and that hyped on some mythical Al Qaeda fears. Fears made worse when no evidence of Al Qaeda could be found.

Somehow George Jr knows Al Qaeda is lurking everywhere. Thererfore we even 'Pearl Harbor' some one only because they might be a threat. Meanwhile all those missile attacks on Al Jazzera offices in so many countries - those too were only accidents?

70% of America really should admit to being fools for letting a mental midget hype so much hype and fear - the "War to create Terror" - the Mission Accomplished war - an axis of evil - and a George Jr who does not even read his PDBs yet somehow knows that levees would not be breached. How does a politician so corrupt and with such low intelligence promote so much fear and hate? Another lesson taught in history. He was called Adolph Hitler. Hilter also promoted these emotions. Hitler also had his Rush Limbaughs to hype those fears.

Meanwhile an Oregon man sits for weeks in jail while denied his constitutional rights. This is acceptable? Do we say, "Don't worry. Be happy."? Or do we go after the extremists among us who so hate America as to encourage that hype and fear - even promote a myth called Al Qaeda.

Remember more lessons of history. Extremists are often so dumb that one could not even give himself a hot foot on an airliner. Hype from extremist rhetoric would even pervert a simple and well understood task called fingerprinting.

I was shocked when so many here advocated the destruction of world stability - pre-emption. These testosterone thinkers maintained we must attack them before they attack us. Well thank you for undermining everything America stood for in 50 years. It was a well proven concept called containment. Its principles included a Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty that George Jr wants to gut. The Economist magazine is blunt about this in a 9 Mar 2006 issued entitled Dr Strangedeal: Now that George Jr has declared "Pearl Harbor" diplomacy is good, countries that don't build nuclear weapons and other WMDs would be wrong. This is necessary when pre-emption is the new world order.

Worse, George Jr has decided to reward nations for not entering into a Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. India can remain out of that treaty - can market nuclear bomb technology throughout the world - and receive nuclear technology from America. That guts the entire non-proliferation treaty. Only a mental midget would have negotiated that deal. Why stop. He did as even the foreign ministre of Norway predicted - he even killed the Oslo Accords.

Turkey now needs nuclear weapons - obviously. First, George Jr will reward nations for building nuclear weapons. Second, George Jr's "Pearl Harbor" diplomacy - also called preemption - means other nations must build bombs. Turkey must defend itself. This is what the neo-cons and their pre-emption have created. The IAEA is very concerned of Turkey's new and necessary political needs. Turkey needs the bomb because Project for a New American Century has promoted pre-emption and has promoted a mental midget president who even undermines the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty.

George Jr started his first threats of war on Iran. Did you think I made this stuff up so long ago when I predicted the United States was preparing for an Iran attack? Katrina may have saved the world by showing other mental midgets - George Jr supporter - how dumb this president really is -that lying is what George Jr does.

George Jr is that dangerous, that fringe religous neo-con, and that stupid as to even reward India for going nuclear. Turkey has no choice but to go nuclear. Only a mental midget could deny it.

Front cover of The Economist 9 Mar 2006:

From here.

I think this means that all of the vehicle and body armor was finally delivered and installed 2 years after it was requested.

Homeland security is not found in jackboot security forces patrolling ports and airports. Security starts with in our allies. America once had tremendous security because 70% of the world had positive views on America. The mental midget quickly drove American security down to 15%. Now that anti-American attitude is hardening. These examples from movies in countries that were some of America's closest friends - Egypt and Turkey - demonstrate how dangerous this world is becoming for an Americans.

From the Washington Post of 20 Mar 2006:

Today we have another example of a complacent and irresponsible George Jr administration who demand loyalty at the expense of America. Testimony from the Moussaoui trial only confirms what has been posted in the Cellar so many times since 11 September: Why would they gamble? Look at what the George Jr administration did to this nation's #1 anti-terrorist investigator John O'Neill. They drove him from the Bureau because a George Jr administration insisted terrorism was not a threat. Even worse is *how* they drove John O'Neill from government service. And that experience did not promote incompetence - ignore threats of terror - in all government agencies? Of course it did. Then more examples.

We have what Condoleezza Rice, et al did and proclaimed (from Against all Enemies): It is a well proven concept. 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. In this case, made worse because top management have a polticial agenda rather than a basic concept of science and reality. The George Jr administration let it be known in uncertain terms what was THEIR reality as exampled by science perversion by lawyers for the greater glory of a political party. You can damn well be sure that FBI administrators in Washington were told what did and did not constitute a threat. They had the famous example of what was happening to John O'Neill to remind them.

Administration with a dictatorship mentality - as also demonstrated here by Urbane Guerilla - stifled at least three and maybe four separate FBI investigations that could have uncovered 11 Sept before it started. And so again we have examples of decisions based in politics - and the thousand of Americans who died because of mental midgetry. No, this is not about levees that would not be breached - another example of mental midgretry. This is about why this nation's #1 anti-terrorism investigator even died in the WTC South Tower. He knew an attack was coming and had just taken the job of security chief - after having been forced out of government by the George Jr admininstration.

Those whose politics and religion replace logical thought somehow know better. Unfortunately good Americans are simply fodder for fringe politics - which is why so many died on 11 Sept - why so many die in Iraq - why it is so danagerous for Americans throughout the world - why even our closest allies (Dubai and Canadians) can no longer be trusted - why global warming somehow does not exist - why corporations (airlines, GM, big steel) are now given $billions with no strings attached to protect their bad management.

Remember what that FBI agent said under oath: Not only do we have his testimony. We also have other examples and the reason why the George Jr administration is so hates America - for the greater glory of their political agenda. The George Jr administration made it quite clear that terrorism was not a threat - facts be damned. They would destroy careers, if necessary, (ie John O’Neill) to demand such loyalty. This agents testimony only again demonstrates why 11 September was avoidable by people driven by logic rather than by those driven by a political agenda such as "Project for a New American Century".

From CBSMarketWatch.com on 23 Mar 2006: Who in his right mind would want the job? This is the S&L Crisis all over again. Massive government welfare to companies who for a decade and longer used Pension Funds to make their profits look high or to claim profits that really did not exist. This shortfall does not yet include GM's possible pension fund defaults. GM owes $billions to the pension fund because they intentionally (and legally) shorted that fund in the 1990s to make profits look higher. And guess who pays. You and your children.

Ahh, but Cheney told us that "Reagan proved deficiets don't matter". So screw you - is a part he forgot to mention.

This was billed as a program to be a safety net for the helpless workers that would be devastated by their employer going belly up.
You don't suppose the misconduct of major corporations was foreseen, or possibly prompted, by this legislation, do you?:tinfoil:

Prompted more by the lack of any reasonable accounting standards. You think the S&L crisis would have given the government a heads up on watching the back door.

What's annoying is that with the new bankruptcy laws, the average citizen is held more accountable than the large corporations..

The United States only has two viable options for Iraq. One is a massive troop deployment to end the problems now - 500,000 men. If those who support this president really had balls, then they would demand same. But they instead love 'status quo' as if god will correct all. A second alternative is - and some very interesting plans have been proposed to accomplish this - is to phase out American troops now. Done so with a gauntlet thrown down to Iraqi troops and elected government leaders. They must stop pretending and get real. Iraqis know how to pretend for your benefit. They need not risk life because Americans will do al the work; pay all the bills. Only when Iraqis are told that they will be fully incharge within one year will Iraqis suddenly get serious.

A 'window of oppurtunity' for the second option is closing quickly. Once lies are eliminated from the same liars who claim Global Warming does not exist, then most all Iraqis long said that life in Iraq was worse then under Saddam and they expected life to get better. An Iraqi Parliament meets only for 1/2 hour (becasue of American orders) to swear in and then disbans - does nothing. Iraqis are now saying in greater numbers that they don't expect life to get better anytime in the near future - up to a decade. Most Iraqis say life today is even worse than last year.

Iraq is becoming a junk yard ripe for Civil War. Oppurtunity to leave something good is closing quickly because a US president does not provide the troops with what they need - especially truth and elimination of torture. Today's news only indicates how quickly that oppurtunity is closing - how close Iraq may change from underground Civil War to overt Civil War.

From the Washington Post of 27 March 2006:
Does the expression (from previous big dic mentalities) "we had to burn the village to save it" sound familiar? Wake up folks. Eliminate administration lies. All that remains are an overt Civil War heard breathing loudly in the dark. So how do they explain this? Yes even top Iraqi government people - American surogates - criticize Americans for this on Iraqi national TV. Do you understand how anti-American the entire country is becoming - why there are so many *Al Qaeda* (quoting another George Jr lie) supporters?

Those so enhanced by 'big dic' military solutions will never appreciate Vietnam Deja Vue. They will insist all those deaths did not happen - were staged. Or that they were clearly Al Qaeda. It is called denial of how things fail quickly - or why those with 'big dic' politics are THE most dangerous Americans to Americans.

TV carries those dead people pictures all night long as if the WTC had just collapsed in Baghdad. Do American still kiss the Rush Limbaugh ass - or do they appreciate how badly Iraq has long been falling apart? This is where an expression "never trust anyone over 30" came from - when the nation's number one liar back then was the US president.

George Jr administration says it was not a mosque - IOW George Jr lies again as even ABC News is showing us at this minute. Does not matter. It is a mosque now. Americans supervised the death of Iraqis in that mosque. Those are the facts on the street and broadcast by all electronic media - which is why Americans have little time to decide one or two solutions: 1) Give the Generals the troops they have always said they needed - up to 500,000. Or 2) announce the withdrawl that is complete in one year - so that Iraqi will either build a country or plan for an otherwise, evitable Civil War.

Those who refuse either plan are fools; are in denial. There is no other viable solution for Iraq other than a total American defeat only after uselessly bleeding American soldiers for ten years in country. Then leaving Iraq a sworn enemy of the US. The consequences of not doing one of those two options is that bad - AND inspires terrorists throughout the world to attack Americans. Isolated example because the actual number of Iraqi dead due to an underground Civil War is estimated to be in the hundreds daily - rarely reported. This does not include hundreds of kidnapping weekly that never get reported. Under Saddam, it was safer? Eliminate Rush Limbaugh propaganda, and the answer has long been an obvious *NO*. Well he was was a police major and that his brother is the chief of police in Diyala province. But then America has long known that those recruited to defend Iraq include large numbers insurgents. Death squads are trained by Americans. We have so little grasp of 'who is who' that America even trains insurgents.

We then lie and blame it all on the mythical Al Qaeda. No wonder these same anti-Americans also deny global warming. We only have two options in Iraq. Instead the mental midget president claims things are getting better. Vietnam Deja Vue - or outright scumbag liars. Same thing.

IOW -- and so many words! -- dear old tw doesn't want us to do anything ever that might win us the war. What a pusbrain.

Communism: the chronic infection. Red is the color of inflammation, and as a communist, tw is carefully anti-American.

Note too his erratic grammar in a foreign phrase -- something he almost never gets right.

From CBS News of 29 Mar 2006: Article Two - the justification by George Jr that he can wiretap without judicial oversight:

Damn Commie! How dare you cite the US Constitution when "libertarians" like UG want the government to take ever more control out of the hands of the US people, and allow our highest elected officials to engage in war profiteering by lining their pockets with ill-gotten Halliburten profits?

Jeez, only a fellow traveler would have us beleive that someone should rein in the power grabbing schemes of the current executive branch of our government!

PS I am in a very bad mood today, and if UG makes just one more of his hysterical war mongering posts or accusations, he's toast, courtesy of yours truely.

Mari, you're looking rather red. Is that a fever or do I note THE CHRONIC SCOURGE OF COMMUNISM AND CAREFULLY ANTI-AMERICAN SYMPTOMS OF THAT AFFLICTION?

Nah, it just bird flu. :right:

Bird flu is a communist plot or something.

And you know so much about it you can't even remember how to spell "Halliburton." Yeah, riiiiight. You may believe that guff with a religious intensity, but you are bowing to a false god. It will, naturally, fail you, and leave you in the confederacy of dunces. I know you've set forth your penchant for irrational anti-Republicanism before -- which leaves me cold.

Which is an interesting, if well trodden, spin on the Administration trying to have war powers in order to prosecute what is unmistakably a war, regardless of its unusual features. It might be legally simpler if we had a formal declaration of war, but with the Democratic Party unable to identify the real enemy -- his name isn't George, for a little hint -- and concentrating solely on the pseudo-battle to take Congress and the Presidency away from the party that actually can fight the war, as well as the out-of-proportion feel to a declaration of a state of war against a non-national crew of murderous shitheads, I don't see a formal declaration of war on the horizon either.

It would be nicer dealing with you if you ever knew any better -- you're old enough, after all, so I really don't know what excuse you can present. We of the warmonger party are more interested in peace than you are, I should think: we seek a true, just, and lasting peace, which will only be found on the far side of victory: a democratic, open Iraq and discredited terrorists, rejected of all Islam. You and yours seek only surrender, to people America should not surrender to. For shame! And if you seek to leave me toast, I shall make of you a charcoal briquet, you dishonest and miserable antipatriot. Your wrath and hissy-fit will avail you not at all.

George Jr in 2003: Does that mean Cheney gets a bonus? Is that not how corrupt management is rewarded? How big is the VP's golden parachute? Meanwhile, Libby says the president ordered the leaks. Does George Jr have an evil twin? Oh - he is a right wing extremist Republican. Clearly Saddam created 11 September. Clearly Iraq was a threat to somebody. Now if we could only figure out who was threatened? Silly me. That also assumes honesty. This is god's chosen president. Honestly would only get in the way of god's will. Clearly George Jr can lie all he wants. After all he is the same president who therefore can wiretap anyone he wants. Is it in nationaly security - or for the greate glory of god's religion?

Anyone else and these above statements would be foolish. Not with George. He gets the respect he deserves.

Straw and Rice (foreign ministers for UK and US) snuck into Iraq to tell Iraqi leaders that a government will stop terrorism. Right. And the elections in S Vietnam were going to stop Victor Charlie. Ironic that American leadership - totally devoid of what was happening in country (ie Vietnam) - again completely have no grasp of how bad Iraq is becoming.

Last year, some in The Cellar tried to claim Iraqi violence was exaggerated. They claimed all that reconstruction and other good works was being ignored. Well, most all projects are halted or sabotagued. BBC quote so many Iraqi this week who routinely claimed American soldiers were a greatest threat. Americans routinely fire at anyone who gets too close. Clearly Iraq is getting better. Iraq is now a net importer of oil. Somehow these and a long list of other facts get ignored in a Washington 'denial' mindset that some have even parroted here.

Well another American decrees how Iraq will get better. From the NY Times of 7 April 2006: Robin Williams starred in a movie called "Good Morning, Vietnam" where these events were also how America won the hearts and minds of the people. Mission Accomplished. Scenes literally right out of another famous book called "Ugly American".

Good Morning, Iraq. Mission Accomplished. Now all they need do is form a government. That will stop the violence. That will restore electricity (to levels that Saddam had no trouble providing). Clearly things are getting better. All they need is Americans to order the Parliament to meet again. That will solve everything according to Condi Rice and Jack Straw. Clearly only Washington knows what is best for Iraq.

George Jr's intentions to invade Iran have been subverted first by insurgents (which he lies about when he calls them Al Qaeda), and now by militias that are killing more than insurgents. As killing in Iraq increase (from levels never seen during Saddam's reign), a use of conventional forces against Iran is not viable. No problem. Since George Jr sees the world chock full of enemies everywhere, then unilateral use of nuclear weapons is completely justified. Remember, when you remained silent as the US "Pearl Harbored" Iraq, well, you only enpowered Satanic forces. From CBS News of 9 Apr 2006:
Why was the mental midget promoting bunker busting nuclear weapons? Are you so anti-American (naive) as to believe they were not built? Why are there enemies everywhere (where no enemies exist)? Even our allies are mistrusted. Clearly Idi Amin is even hiding in every closet waiting to massacre us. It is the George Jr mindset encouraged by so many Americans who so hate America as to remain silent.

Those who have been Cellar dwellers forever know that I have never been anywhere near so critical of any other politician. I have never seen so much of what others call 'evil' as exists with the current president. No one has ever observed me to be anywhere so critical of any other politician. He does nothing as people die due to an Indian Ocean tsunami, destroys the Oslo Accords, undermines or destroys international world treaties (anti-missile treaty, weapons in space treaty, nuclear non-proliferation treaty, nuclear test ban treaty), sits reading a children's book and does nothing when told "America is under attack" (and does nothing all day but hide), lies about Saddam's WMDs, outs a CIA agent to take revenge on those who would tell the truth, endorse religious extremists who would even lie in Federal Court to promote their religion on good people in Dover PA, wiretaps while saying all but "fuck you" to the courts, advocated torture and lies about it, rendition (kidnapping innocent people in foreign nations), completely destroys a negotiated settlement to bring N Korea back into the world (to justify war), spends money like only a corrupt politician would to mortgage America's future (no one else has even done this worse), lies about levees in New Orleans as Brownie all but begs on his knees for assistance (and then goes to CA for a campaign fund raiser) (keep the USS Bataan at sea while people are dying in New Orleans), destroys American science where ever he can (from satellites to even software research - yes government research on software has been cut by more than 50%), lies about the rebuilding of Iraq and Afghanistan (so that only the most naive among us could believe him), creates so much mistrust that even Canadians will need passports - clearly Canadians are more enemies of America, lies about global warming, enriches corporations that contribute money to Republicans (Halliburton, K Street, et all), other corporate welfare ($tens of billions free to airlines, protection of anti-American steel manufacturers, subverts SEC investigations of numerous companies such as Enron, AIG, Waste Management, those who intentionally created a CA energy crisis) until state Attorneys General threaten to prosecute to publically humiliate George Jr, accepting a $450,000 campaign contribution to keep a defective nuclear reactor on-line (with a potential Three Mile Island problem and a hole in its containment dome) in Toledo, promoting excessive energy consumption as a solution to stifled innovation (what happened to that $100million given to GM 12 years ago to build a hybrid?), global warming, executive incomes increase between tens and hundreds time more than all others (a precursor to a Great Depression), encourage Arab Israeli violence by even letting Israel use American weapons on Palestinians, impose right wing religious beliefs (including "intelligent design") on all others (to promote religious wars), protect that 40% additional profit for drugs at the expense of American consumers by even subverting the real costs of that government welfare program (it will cost about about $1 trillion), massive increases in government bureaucracy such as Fatherland Security, raiding the trust funds such as Highway and Social Security without leaving an IOW - then lying about why those trust funds must be reformed, lying to people in NYC about a major environment health threat, arsenic in drinking water is acceptable, making it dangerous for Americans to travel in a world that once was more than 70% friendly to America, and even bragging about how he made his first $600,000 (by doing nothing productive as only MBAs do). And this is only an abridged list. Americans will be dying for no purpose in Iraq and Afghanistan long after George Jr leaves office - because George Jr did not do his job - did not even read the PDB that warned of 11 September. Even George Jr calls this "Mission Accomplished"

So yes, a nuclear attack on a sovereign nation by this president is quite acceptable. He and other schizophrenic types see enemies every where - where once we could find friends. He will do this because so many even in the Cellar remain silent as they did when George Jr lied about Saddam's WMDs AND where George Jr all but blamed Saddam for the WTC.

Never forget a paper upon which Project for New American Century was predicated - that the US may even unilaterally attack (Pearl Harbor) India, Russia, or Germany. Clearly a unilateral nuclear attack is trivial by comparison. Same people now justify a unilateral nuclear attack on Iran. Their 'Rush Limbaugh' promoters are already spinning that acceptable - as they did to promote lies about Saddam's WMD and to blame Saddam for 11 September. But this time, we can learn, in advance, Cellar Dwellars who advocate nuclear war. They will remain silent here - which justifies unprovoked nuclear war on Iran - as they did to justify the "Mission Accomplished" war.

The US advocates using nuclear weapons. If you remain silent, then you have endorsed it - because the consequences are that severe. So severe that silence is an endorsement of nuclear war. There is no way one can remain silent about a "Pearl Harbor with nuclear weapons" and say they don't approve. Of course George Jr thinks nothing of using nuclear weapons when he even sees a new Hitler in Tehran. This, BTW, is how Hitler took power in Germany.

Still finding bodies. From the NY Times of 11 Apr 2006: I remember George Jr standing on ocean front property while promising that Trent Lott's house would be rebuilt. Meanwhile: Heard in a recent game of Password: "Incompetence." "George Bush Jr."

What did George Jr do in his first term when his popularity fell? Issue another Orange Alert. Well that does not work anymore. Better nuke another nation. War always increases the president's popularity ... and stops people from talking about New Orleans.

A competent man, having made so many gross mistakes during Katrina, would go out of his way to make sure no more fubars come from New Orleans. FEMA does not have the paper work? One decree from the president would solve that in 30 seconds. They are still looking for bodies that even remain where they died - 8 months ago. Only an incompetent (religiously selected politician) leader would let this continue – dead bodies unrecovered for eight plus months because of paper work. And again 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. They cannot recover bodies for eight months due to paper work? More bull.

George Jr's concern ended with a promise to rebuild Trent Lott's ocean front house. No problem. Fix his popularity by nuking Iran. Don't fool yourself for one minute. That is why the administration's number one guy on New Orleans after 'Brownie' was recalled to Washington was ... Karl Rove. It was a popularity problem - recovering bodies still is only secondary.

tw, you may have covered this before, but where did you find that often cited 85% figure?

I have long awaited someone to ask. Number comes from teachers of management. Not the types that preach spread sheet analysis. The types that teach real management theory - often called 'Quality' - or what I call 'Product Oriented'. Many experts in quality have noted the trend. But I believe the actual number is cited by William Edward Deming - whose bead experiment, now in the Smithsonian, demonstrates the fact. I can no longer be sure which Deming publication provided the number. It has been many decades and much reading. Deming is so informative because he includes quantitative analysis.

Meanwhile, I provided another number. When top management blames everyone else, then 99% of those problems are directly traceable to top management. This from personal observations that date back to MBAs such as 1970s Henry Ford, Xerox management, the despicable Cannovino of IBM who was therefore always at war with Microsoft, head of Ashton-Tate (the largest software manufacturer in the world at that time), and even a most recent example - Carly Fiorina. I personally witnessed her all but completely lie to stockholders in the Compaq-HP merger meeting.

Eight months after Katrina and still there is no concerted effort to recover the bodies. This because FEMA does not have the paperwork? This because an organization headed by an MBA (George Jr) and a lawyer (Chertoff) need paperwork? Eight months and still no paperwork! Bull. Classic bean counter management. 99% of this problem is directly traceable to a president who went to CA for a fund raiser when Katrina bore down on New Orleans. A president whose lies are based upon the only thing important - George Jr's popularity and his party extremists. Just another example of why those numbers from W E Deming were so accurate. And probably why I saw George Jr for what he really was long before most everyone here.

CycleFrance noted another book called "The Goal". To appreciate where my perspective comes from and why that 85% number is so accurate, then maybe read that book. Once introduced to the concept, then Ayn Rand's books may say something different from what so many first assumed. It's called perspective. "The Goal" demonstrates in 'story book' format why I could long understand George Jr to be what others are finally learning four years later. The number comes from “product oriented” thinking. I believe Deming provided that number. Decades of experience has repeatedly demonstrated why those numbers are so accurate. Bottom line - that number is deeply rooted in so many fundamental principles.

And nobody expected the levees would be breeched. Even from MTV of 12 Apr 2006: Would god's chosen president lie to you? Of course. Normal when religious extremists want to impose their religion on all others. Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition.

When nearly a million were dying due to an Indian Ocean tsunami, George Jr did as he also did for New Orleans. Virtually nothing. George Jr believed he was god's chosen president. Wonder which god he worships. Teach your kids to be as honest as the president.

From the BBC of 10 Apr 2006:

Lovely. Draft, anybody? You send your kid first! No, you! No, YOU!:rar:

Nothing new here, from the French and British experiences, we see that terrorism can occur over decades. What pisses me off is that the adminstrations is still trying to equate the war in Iraq with the War on Terror. Noone there will admit that the War on Terror is about a worldwide network of terror cells and never had anything to do with regime change in Iraq.

Also, that as far as terror and insurgency go, the French ended up giving up in Algeria and that violence in Northern Ireland has been ongoing for 80 years.

In most cases, occupation caused more violence instead of helping to quell it.

C'mon Rich, how does the "french giving up", mean anything, anywhere. :lol:

Concepts are similar to why we have an illegal immigration problem. Eliminate a reason for a problem AND that problem goes away. As long as Britain insisted on imposing a solution on Northern Ireland rather than work for a solution, then that problem persisted. Once Sen Mitchell arrived - and the Brits were furious about having negotiations ongoing - then a diplomatic solution replaced terrorism. Once the French stopped imposing a brute force solution in N Africa, then violence was no longer necessary. Once the Israelis were talking to Palestinians (and a solution appeared promising - Oslo Accords), then all terrorism stopped.

An inverse example. Once Zionist extremists came to power - called for and even got the assasination of Peres - terminated the Oslo Accords - then Sharon got what he wanted - Intafada II - plenty of violence.

The purpose of war is to return to diplomacy. When diplomacy does not work, then war is not just possible - but essential. Exactly why we teach Americans 'lessons of history' so that American leaders can not lie and so that diplomacy gets the respect it deserves. Whooops. Maybe others besides Urbane Guerilla did not first read the Pentagon Papers.

A wonderful example of how diplomacy works was the Balkans. Containment. Negotiation. Selective use of force. Economic pressure. The problem in Serbia literally negotiated himself out of a job - without any invasion of Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, etc. Holbrook literally talked Milosevik into surrender. It's all about identifying and then negotiating a problem out of existence. Violence - ie terrorism - only when leaders fail to perform their job.

Nations with great leaders don't need 20 years of violence and warfare to fix problems. And once the locals (Eurpoeans) could not do that job in the Balkans, only then did the Americans enter resulting in far less loss of life.

How many people had to die uselessly in Northern Ireland before the powers that be decided to stop following violent men and instead address the problem.

tw...

Political leaning isn't simple left/right. It's a circle. And you are so far left that you are coming around on the right.

Yes, the Bush administration is grossly inept. Yes, they broke the law and are getting away with it. Yes, the war is going to hell. But anyone who can arrive at that conclusion by themselves doesn't wanna hear you rant on about it for 13 pages, and anyone who can't isn't going to be persuaded by you saying 'mental midget', 'deja vue (sic)', and 'rush limbaugh' a hundred times. Give it a rest already, man.

I don't agree with you or anything, but man! 15 posts in and you already have a total understanding of he who is tw. Sharp, dude.

I have to say that I find tw's tenacity on this subject rather amazing, myself. I think we can safely say that tw is not overly fond of W. ;)

Assassination of Peres? If you mean assassination literally, then you are referring to Yitzhak Rabin. If you are referring to assassination figuratively, as in political or character assassination, I would need more details.

Shimon Peres is still alive and in the Knesset.

A president earns respect. He does not deserve it especially when he lies repeatedly for a political agenda - when America is only secondary to his agenda. He undermined the Oslo Accords as a Norwegian foreign minister predicted. He almost got us in a hot war with mainland China over some silly spy plane. Where does this earn respect. Emotion has nothing to do with a president that is factually incompetent.

I meant the assiniation of Rabin - not Perez who then became Prime Minister after Rabin was assinated as called for by Israeli extremists.

tw, I'm with you 100%. I should have clarified my comment to say that my amazement is equally divided between your tenacity and the way W continues to add fuel to the fire. Its not like W made a little mistake here or there and learned his lesson. Like the energizer bunny, he keeps going and going and adding to his debacle of a presidency. I don't think even Nixon was as bad! :eek:

60 Minutes interviews a retired CIA officer who provided the White House with its intelligence. Of course, most are finally acknowledging what should have been obvious years ago. However that personal speculation is not sufficient. Supporting facts of even obvious conclusions must be learned. Even things obvious need detailed supportig facts.

A top CIA officer is speaking publicly about the obvious - how incompetently the White House handled intelligence. Just knowing that they did so is not sufficient. Informed Americans need these testimonies.

George Jr insisted intelligence agencies got it all wrong - an outright lie - blame others. What does an MBA then do? Create more layers of bureaucracy. George Jr's solution to stifling Federal Investigations that could have uncovered 11 Sept was Fatherland Security - more bureaucracy. To promote his myths that intelligence was flawed, he created a Director of National Intelligence - as if the CIA did not do that job. The New York Times of 19 April 2006 demonstrates what that bureaucracy has done: Of course this is what MBAs do when they don't have grasp of how the work gets done - hire more subordinates - create more layers of bureaucracy.

Meanwhile other problems are being created by these bureacracy layers - a problem that would not exist under the previous and less bureaucratic system: Which comes to another thread - the agenda of Rumsfeld - his "my way or the highway" attitude. No mystery that Rumsfeld wants intelligence functions moved into Pentagon's control. But that's another story.

These reports are about a White House that distorts intelligence for political agenda, then blames others, and then builds bureaucratic structures. As if bureaucracy will solve a competence problem; a president who lies for a political agenda. There was no intelligence failure. That intelligence failure is a mental midget who would even out a CIA agent to maintain his myths.

They ask why reporters don't report on all the good things ongoing in Iraq. Who is getting the good? From the NY Times of 25 Apr 2006: $2.4 billion no-bid contract? $45 billion just for an the oil industry in 2004 that still does not export in 2006?

Meanwhile, this project in 2003 was when we were being told that the war had been won; that reports of violence and terror attacks were exaggerated: KBR is better known as Halliburton. No problem. We are paying for good - not oil. And we believe this war is being won. We pay. They tell us we are winning. No problem. Meanwhile, Iraq exports less oil than it did only two years ago - after we spent how much money? No problem. Americans are rich MBAs. We can afford the corporate welfare.

30% of us still approve of George Jr. Many will so hate America as to not read this NY Times article. And yet 30 years from now when America again forgets to learn from history, these are the articles you should have learned from - or denied. Demonstrated is how those who are most corrupt still blame others while denying reasons for failure. Described here is why things that happen next month and next year could have been avoided. From the NY Times of 21 May 2006: What intelligence failure? Those who had been reading details knew CIA did not have major intelligence failures about 11 September or Iraq - except where Rush Limbaugh has us lying to ourselves. More from a long list of articles that demonstrate intelligence failures were from neocons who even lied about CIA failures and who said, "Americans don't do nation building." We didn't. Look what that created: Were not even leaving green zones when so many back here denied that Iraq was so dangerous and getting worse. Many death squads now operating throughout Iraq are believed to be police.

Either we put 1/2 million soldiers in country and start fixing security immediately, or we should be planning to get out in 6 months. Status quo only means things will get worse, as was posted as a warning here in the Cellar back in late 2004. We did not even provide enough people to train the police. Everywhere a same refrain - not enough boots on the ground. Mission Accomplished.

He's earned mine. No he didn't. No almost about it: all parties concerned remained calm. Read some detailed accounts of the aerial collision of the P-3 and F-9 over the South China Sea, and learn more than you knew. Somehow, your take on this continues to reinforce my understanding that you are a communist.

Punctuation is as in the original. If you cannot punctuate a simple question, tw, you cannot remotely hope for respect. You (you idiot), refuse to earn any, so perhaps if you want public attention, you might try removing your trousers, seating yourself, deeply, atop a splintery fence post, and rotating at better than 128 rpm for over an hour.

Getting your freak on would be more constructive than the wrongheaded logorrhea you indulge in here. Good thing you make communism look stupid, though.

He can't. The man's mad, in addition to having his grasp of reality amputated by his communist beliefs. He's not a communist because I called him one -- the evidence, out of his own writing, is not merely clear, it is blatant.

...For every liberal wacko, there's a conservative nutjob.

He's talking trash about people who aren't present. Not that I ain't doing the same...

What can I say to that except that some people are bought more cheaply than others.

Rich, when are you going to get it through your head that your fleering not only is of no consequence, but that it produces disesteem for you? Open your mouth more constructively next time, and quit being such a blue-footed booby.

Or if you'd rather, a "popinjay," "truculent," or perhaps "contumelious."

Nobody thinks you're the superior one here. Sneering at the Right is the posing of the pseudosophisticate -- and you pose entirely too much, so we go under your guard and hit you. Regularly. You are a big, fat, mentally out of shape target, and we don't mind deflating you.

UG, all you're doing is making YOURSELF look pretentious. I quite respect richlevy, but every time you 'open your mouth' my respect for you drops a bit lower.

Who is "we?" You and the mouse in your pocket?

Speak for yourself.

Happy Monkey:

To speak for oneself, it is necessary to first think for oneself.

This is why your excellent suggestion will go unheeded.

Now, you're catching on.:thumb:

Not catching on, Bruce, I've been 'cought on' for a while.

Oh, glatt, do you harbor anything like respect for tw? And if so, why, for crying in a bucket?

This is a communist I'm kicking ass on, remember? A communist who has no more notion of history than he does of writing. A communist who can neither spell nor edit his way out of a wet paper bag.

I'd appreciate a little more decent anticommunism and anti-idiocy and a little less "fashionable" leftism, okay? Leftism's going out of fashion these days, and good riddance.

Rich is not totally without intellect or learning -- but what he does with them gives me the same reaction, to a milder degree, that I had on listening to Mario Cuomo's long-defunct radio talk show: How does someone of that obvious intelligence stay so wrong?

I seem to recall encountering a "RichLevy" in AOL Chat back when I haunted those chatrooms. I wasn't impressed then, either.

Summing up, the man's not clinically insane, and he doesn't seem grossly immature like tw, but I'm not seeing deep wisdom there either. Guys who aren't pro-gun (thus antigenocide in the real way) generally aren't blessed with wisdom.

I speak for myself, and for everyone here who is more emotionally mature, less neurotic, and less outright communist than tw.

That means I speak for you too -- this time, at any rate. You don't have to like it, but you get it anyway, and I'll not do you wrong.

V, in not agreeing with the leftists who jabber on this board, I think for myself rather than become some chatterclone. I think for myself whether you can believe that or not -- your belief or unbelief isn't exactly going to tip the scales, is it? I've read almost everything Heinlein ever wrote, and I think you could stand to do the same. I read American Spectator pretty regularly, and sample National Review from time to time. Those people really do think, and I think they think better than even the Left's leadingest lights. I'm pro-gun -- and therefore, as the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership teaches us, more antigenocide, in realer ways, than anyone here who is antigun or even anti-NRA -- and pro-abortion, though recognizing, through experience, that it carries an emotional cost. I've been around the world, and seen autarchy -- and seen the price of autarchy, what it does to the human spirit and to the wealth of nations; neither is well treated.

Let these few examples stand for many. I'm reading a lot of nonfiction these days -- history and current events, history's second draft. Therefore, I just say that the "excellent suggestion" isn't being heeded any more now than it was previously; I've already got that covered.

So, BigV, show me that you've learned, and that you understand. Bear in mind that you cannot push me into defensiveness.

What's wrong with being a communist?

I concede that communism is flawed, most notably in that it in practice fails; but it seems as though you're saying 'communism' instead of 'wrong' or 'doesn't agree with me.' It seems silly to dismiss a person's ideas because they are a communist; or for any other reason, really, except perhaps a historical tendency to have bad ideas. It seems that to dismiss an idea for any reason which doesn't directly pertain to the idea in question is a failure of discourse & debate. The 'communist' lable seems to be another knot on a long string of failed communication that, of late, has tangled itself around this forum.

To quote a coffeeshop friend of mine, meaning is hard. It takes work. I see a lot of people working very hard for cheap thrills: cheap shots & a warm fuzzy feeling for 'being right.' I have come to believe that too many vocal characters hereabouts care more about their opinion than in changing it; and to my mind that is fundamentally the wrong perspective from which to debate. It is the right opinion for a talkshow, a soapbox, a yelling match, or masturbation. But if you are interacting with someone else, someone with whom you do not agree, and are from the beginning convinced that you are more correct than they, then you are wasting your time & theirs & mine for reading it. It sets the tone of lecturing, condesension, & closemindedness, from which meaning & understanding rarely come.

So declaring someone a communist gives you free right to say or do what you like to them? Likewise, anti-anybody is decent? That seems to be your logic...

I'm probably the biggest communist sympathiser here, INCLUDING tw. I think Karl Marx has a downright BIRLLIANT idea, the only problem with which is that nobody has ever actually executed it without changing it enough to make themselves supreme ultimate dictator, free to do whatever the hell they want. THAT is the problem with Communism. Nobody's ever done it.

...I'm not even gonna comment.

A.) What does that have to do with the fact that richlevy is obviously more mature than you, mature enough to not sink to petty attacks like you are? Nothing. As with most things you say (TW IS A COMUNST!!!one!!eleven) (LOLZ U R FAT AND STOOPD), it has no bearing on the argument at hand.

B.) How is being anti-gun a bad thing, pray tell? Your, uh, 'explaination' wasn't very clear, to say the least. If nobody has a gun, nobody gets shot. Pretty simple.

Lets have a show of hands, how many people think richlevy was the 'superior one' in that argument?

From the NY Times of 1 Jun 2006:
Good news, Foreign allies, Russians, and Chinese have conspired to stop the invasion of Iran. Have conspired to save American soldier lives from the evil 'do gooder' George Jr. That they are asking suggests they now understand who the George Jr administration really is. That they are asking says it will be difficult to unilaterally attack Iran only because god told George Jr to do so. Got to remember who really makes the decisions. George Jr still does not read his PDBs which was one of Potter Goss's big complaints. A complaint that helped get him fired. Reality is not always appreciated in this White House.

Whoa, I just realized that Skunks posted while I was typing... Great minds, huh?

Don't support Communism just because UG says he opposes it. In this case the stopped clock is correct. It is the single most murderous philosophy ever developed by man. The Neo-Con body count will never approach it, although it does have great potential for slaughter.

I'm not glatt, but I can answer this. First, I do respect tw more than you. Second, you were talking about richlevy, not tw, and I respect richlevy more than you, too.This is not true.

*snort* You think UG has any sway on me? I support the basic theory of communism, but I agree with both skunks and you, that it is the IMPLEMENTATION that is its downfall, and that, because it is always implemented horribly wrong, ENDS UP being the most murderous philosophy ever developed by man. Its core ideal isn't to kill people, it's to help. But Karl Marx himself said that it could never happen in this world unless every nation decided to implement it together (and, obviously, correctly), because... well, we've seen the outcome.

Just some food for thought: Cuba has a higher literacy rate and lower infant mortality rate than the US, but is dirt poor because of the US, mostly. Not that I'm defending Castro, he's about as evil as Mao or Pol Pot.