Even if we had given them tons of aid, I seriously doubt rebar would have been included, just for the reasons you stated.

Spexx is going to hold on to his argument, no matter what we say. His heart is in the right place, he just hasn't thought the issue through. :rtfm:

Yeah. i don't go in for that quoting and changing what was said business

Probably one of the best things we could do for third world countries is to provide birth control for those women who want it. Under Bush, the US stopped funding many family planning programs because the religous right connected abortion with birth control. But the US has never funded abortions and they are illegal in many third world countries. Ever growing population densities mean the poor get poorer as there is less and less land and food per capita. Obama has begun to change US policies back to providing birth control methods for third world nations. Haiti is mostly Catholic, though, so I don't know if the availability of birth control would have helped them much or not.

What do you think all those tetanus vaccine campaigns are about?

They would have been the perfect thing for Haiti. Unfortunately, that article is 15 years old and gives no author, so I am rather skeptical.

He must have fixed it after your post then, 'cause it was correct when I read it.

Ok. Here's 2 more on the topic.

Placental transfer of tetanus toxoid antibodies in Nigerian mothers.

Fertility regulating and immunotherapeutic
vaccines reaching human trials stage

I do it often because I don't see it until after I go back and re-read it or some spelling nazi jumps on it. ;)

Nothing wrong with making a spelling mistake. But if you are calling someone dumb, or pointing out their grammar/spelling mistakes, and you make one in the same post, well then, you deserve to be ridiculed.

Yea, but I didn't do that. That was someone else.

that's one of those internet rules isn't it? something like calling someone stupid increases the chances of your making a grammatical error by double?

True. It wasn't you.

I make tons of grammatical error and spelling errors. Eh, I fix what I can see. I think faster than my fingers.

I respect the amount of research you have done on the topic of vaccines, but I don't agree with you. I know we are not going to change one another's minds, so lets agree to disagree.

That said, I would be very much opposed to giving ANY woman birth control without her knowledge. The problem with the US program until recently was that birth control methods were not made available to third world women who wanted them. Every woman has the right to choose her own reproductive destiny. Over population is the root of many ills in the third world. If we could help developing nations put a curb on this problem, it would be one of the most economical and effective methods of aid that we could provide.

you don't still think we're talking about you do you?

No. It was just a general comment.

Perhaps it belongs in the "accomplishments of Obama" thread, but I agree that rescinding the Mexico City Policy, under which NGOs could not receive federal aid funds even if they use their own funds for abortions or even abortion counseling, is a good thing.

I also dont think any amount of foreign aid to Haiti would have minimized the disaster, but IMO, and from a larger perspective, the level of US assisstance to our poorest neighbor has been paltry.

And, for the record, my ballpark estimate of $25 billion in total US economic aid was off a bit...its closer to $29 billion, including $6 billion to Afghanistan and Iraq...and still less than one penny of every tax dollar.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/10s1263.pdf (if anyone cares).

Even in the toughest times at home, we can afford more than one penny on the dollar to help those facing even greater day-to-day adversity, if the funding is channeled in a meaningful manner.

And, I would certainly question some of the recipients identified above...but not Haiti.

Or perhaps I am straying too much from the topic at hand...but I agree that we can agree to disagree. :)

Here's my thoughts. Let's cut foreign aid and use the money to help the people in the US. Let the NGOs and the UN handle Haiti. Concentrate our military on completing our missions in Southwest Asia.

We have no such responsibility to provide aid. The world is filled with a hundred Haiti's. Such is life.

So why were you so concerned about someone on the other side of the globe that was a threat to no one. Not a threat to us. Not a threat to any adjacent country. And yet you thought we should Pearl Harbor his nation.

Aid makes friends. Unilaterally attacking someone only because you fear is akin to being friends with the devil. Only the devil would hate aid to the downtrodden while unilaterally attacking others based on mythical fears. Why so much hate?

Hate is popular. It's all the rage. It makes one look strong and self-supportive. Yeah, I'm not buying it either.

I have no idea what he posts so thanks for the quote.

Hate?

All the rage?

Strong and self-supportive?

WTF?

Assume much?

No, when one assumes, one makes an ass of you and me. ;)

Yea, that was my point.

And it was flawless, that point.

No, that you assume.

NGOs and the UN rely heavily on governmentl funding.

About 1/4 of the UN/World Health Organization (WHO) funding is from US government contributions.

Doctors Without Borders gets over half of its funding from governments, including, most significantly, from the US treasury.

Why do the extremists here routinely turn any discussion nasty? Oh. That is what Limbaugh, Beck, etc do. "We want Obama to fail." And so nasty posting from right wing wackos continue. Another post - this time about Haitians - has been converted into another nasty thread of insults. Limbaugh would be proud. How extremists throughout history have gained power. Even 'liberal' use of profanity is expected.

Since the topic is Haiti's earthquake - a small relevant sidebar:

The epicenter was some 20 miles SW of Port-Au-Prince. One would never know from local posting and graphic reports of urban victims. Little has been reported on where the earthquake was possibly most severe.

Viewing satellite photos, damage appreared to be less west (more outside) the city. After wading through reams of useless 'tear jerk' nonsense, reports say getting west (down the coast) was difficult. On Tuesday, the Marines solved that problem. They landed Marine style. From the NY Times of 19 Jan 2010: Is Leogane even worse? Too many reports of dead bodies and frustrated rescuers. Little if any word about damage where the earthquake centered.

Now we return you to more personal attacks justified by an extremist political agenda and the need to have Obama fail. Clearly we have no business helpin Hatians because ...

Global News says Canada is going to concentrate on that area.

I've seen several reports on that area, but there aren't many people there and not much to report. The action is in the capitol, where the people are, so no reason for the reporters to go to the hinterlands, even if they could.

I would guess the majority of those in the hinterlands would have had a better time surviving.

I have read that some Haitian officials simply want to evacuate Port Au Prince and build tent cities on the outskirts.

That might cut down some of the violence.

That is not what I had heard. But again, facts (due to so many human interest stories) is so difficult to obtain.

Even the western side of Port-Au-Prince appeared (in satellite photos) to be mostly intact. A highway out of Port-Au-Prince looked intact. But again, I cannot find any confirmation on any of this. Relevant facts do not exist (or are buried by tear-jerk stories).

Apparently the military has successfully solved distribution problems by opening more airstrips (including one only for C-130s) and establishing small food and water distribution points.

Interesting was a video clip from a home overlooking the city during the quake. Each rising cloud was a collapsing building. They were numerous - almost interconnecting.

Best I can tell, the violence was mostly overblown by isolated press reports - similar to New Orleans. We need more anchormen like Jennings who would have quashed so many overblown accusations.

No more aftershocks in Haiti yesterday (19 Jan). Almost none over many days. Then today had two. One was almost a 6.0 shock. As if buildings are not yet unstable. Try probing inside collapsed buildings when ...

But the desperation may be deeper outside the capital, closer to last week's quake epicenter.
Things don't sound so good outside Port Au Prince:

I was finally able to make a Red Cross donation tonight. On Friday I will also be donating $5 to Haiti relief in exchange for being able to wear jeans to work.

By far the oddest donation was through the Facebook game Mafia Wars. Either by buying them or gaining them through achievements, the player collects 'Godfather points', game currency to buy objects. Earlier this week the game offered 'voodoo drums' for sale with proceeds going to Haiti relief. I used all the points I could to buy two.

Now I'm used to click-a-day sites like thehungersite translating clicks into food, pet supplies, etc, but I still found it odd turning game currency into real world relief supplies. I believe the voodoo drums were 25 points each. I wonder what donation amount that converted to?

On a related note, check out this testimonial from Woot.

I'm a bit of a flashlight nut. I have more than 1 keychain light and two in my car. It looks like it saved this guy some trouble. Hmmm. Amazon carries them for $1.50 http://www.amazon.com/LumPod-Stick-p.../dp/B000T6L1LW

We're starting a permanent relationship with SOS Children's Villages after Pete looked into it.

I thought some people might like to see this.


Haiti 360

Use your mouse to click and drag around the video to change the view. You can also zoom in and out. Pause and explore at any time by pressing the play/pause button under the video to stop and look around. The video below was shot on Monday, January 18, at 9:52 a.m. EST in Port-au-Prince, Haiti.


http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2010/...ex.html?hpt=C1

Well, if you weren't feeling bad enough about the quake, it's now our doing in some of the world's loopier media circles. :headshake Get out your tinfoil hats.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020104

Aw crap, they let the cat outta the bag. :rolleyes:

That is the most outrageous example of fake news I've ever seen.

I didn't know the Russian Northern Fleets was a Fox News affiliate.

They are affiliated with MSNBC - part of the Brzezinski family. :rolleyes:

Nonsense. This is a conspiracy by the Rothchilds, Rockefellers, and Kennedys to manipulate the world. To keep us all busy fighting each another. Everyone knows war creates profits.

Seems to be working then doesn't it?

An indication that they are all too fat and rich? They have been dying.

Who are they?

Well, Rich, it's not like you're ever going to know the news then, is it? Guess you'll be among the last of the unenlightened, all because you prefer leftist stupidity to conservative wisdom... what a rotten kind of life.

In other fumbling, since when is Russia's Northern Fleet plural? Somebody hadn't the proper depth of knowledge. Fleets, quotha.

thats a pretty shitty post, if I do say so myself.

Noticed tonight, their donation has been upped to a million, they're also matching donations.
Guess they realized how bad it is.

that is interesting bruce, I thought it was pretty clear how bad it was from the onset. Maybe some people noticed it like you did and said something to management.

I'll say.

go here
http://samrainer.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/haiti.jpg
then hold down f11

I think ESPN made the right choice in firing Paul Shirley. ESPN hired him to be a commenter and he made bad/stupid comments. He'll probably get a spotlight on Fox or Rush Limbaugh's talk show, they like this sorta thing.

If You Rebuild It, They Will Come. By Paul Shirley

One line of his that really seems "WTF is wrong with you?!"
So....all victims of a disaster are responsible for the disaster? Yep, those rape victims shouldn't have dressed so slutty either!

He's a basketball player, or was. Smart ones are few and far between.

His assumption would be valid IF we do the same to New Orleans and NYC (disasters due to hurricanes) and to the Memphis area (prone to devastation of equivalent proportions also due to little planning for earthquakes.

What warnings? No serious earthquake for 200 years. The only warnings were years previous and too late to do anything. Reality: most warnings were more about an earthquake on the Dominican Republic north shore - not in Haiti.

Meanwhile Haiti was busy still recovering from multiple devastating hurricanes. How were Haitians to be planning for an earthquake that few even suspected?

NYC had an earthquake five on the Richter scale in the 1700s. Is NYC today constructed to withstand a 5+ quake? Since he knows what Haiti should have prepared for, then does he know what NYC should be prepared for?

The problem with his conclusions: facts and assumptions on which it is based are flawed. One is expected to learn facts before throwing stones.

Since New Orleans was built in the wrong location, America should have done nothing to help its citizens? That is his reasoning.

It is the logic - not the morality - of his conclusions that are wrong. They deserve no help because they should have known this was coming? Who knew it? Martians? Certainly not Americans, Europeans, or Haitians.

Well tw, lets take your logic a step further - now that we "know" should we rebuild New Orleans or relocate?

Well, with global warming and rising oceans and more extreme weather to come, I think the entire Gulf Coast should be relocated to Kentucky. :rolleyes:

It makes no sense to rebuild a Ninth ward ten feet below sea level. Many parts of New Orleans were dry because not located below sea level.

Clinton solved many problems by addressing the problem rather then playing political games. For example, Clinton rebuilt cities such as Grafton IL where floods no longer cause damage. Spring 2002 floods no longer caused destructive flooding. FEMA did not build bigger levees. It addressed the problem using product oriented thinking because top management was a good and responsible.

So George Jr goes to Sen Trent Lott's oceanside home (where it once stood) and declares government will rebuild his home in the worst spot possible. Because a rich Senator needs his home rebuilt where it should not be.

Paul Shirley's mistake is to conveniently forget and modify facts to promote his conclusions. At least Memphis knows they have a pending disaster. And have plenty of time to start averting it. According to Paul Shirley's reasoning, when the big one happens, the rest of America should do nothing to save Memphis.

Meanwhile, an intelligent president would not have government rebuild Trent Lott's home. Unlike Haitians, Lott can afford to do it himself. Lott even knew the inevitable was coming. Haitians did not. Therefore Haitians should have no help - according to Paul Shirley. But extremists would rebuild Lott's luxery shore home.