Any historical price provided without correction for inflation is how the propagandists 'lie by telling half truths'. In 2005 dollars, gasoline in the late 1970s was about $7 per gallon. Historically, gasoline prices today are not excessive.

Price for gasoline has simply gone back to historically normal prices. Unfortunately, too many don't consider inflation so they can appease their emotional reactions.

As was posted previously, fundamental science demonstrates that hydrogen as a fuel is not possible. Hydrogen has too little energy per pound and requires too much energy to deliver. Basic science numbers demonstrate that hydorgen as a fuel would result in something like 80% loss of energy by the time that fuel gets to the vehicle.

Curious that GM management is pushing hydrogen since GM top management is devoid of technical competance. The realities of science says hydrogen is a lousy fuel for too many reasons. But then GM also created the EV-1. Then outright lies about its numbers such as range. The real world range for EV-1 (the all electric car) was about 60 miles. GM would not even let EV-1 designers use anything but lead acid batteries because GM did not make batteries of other technologies. This is the same GM that says hydrogen is the future? "Fool me once- shame on you. Fool me tens of times ... at what point do I finally get it?"

Hydrogen has other interesting and practical applications. Batteries based upon hydrogen look particularly promising. No other fuel has the energy per pound numbers that petroleum provides. Those numbers damn hydrogen as a totally impractical fuel. Again, seek that recent and previous discussion here about hydrogen.

Nice try, tw, but no cigar:

Okay, so I talked to the fireman.

They treat hybrids exactly the same as they do any other car.

They cut the battery cables and then they hack it to pieces.

in an accadent it is ALWAYS wise to chop the battery leads , DE-ENERGIZE that Mother Fucker !!!! A EMT told me that YEARS ago , and explained that if you de- energize the car it is that much less likely to catch on fire , it made sence to me .

I have done this more than I care to relate !!!!!

I filled up my work truck today , it was running on fumes , 40 gallon tank , $100 + fillup !!
Thank GOD(S) for the company gas card !!!!!!

Will check out the thread you mention, but will also take the risky route of replying first.

Situations change over time. Did you check the links I gave? When there is motivation to do so money gets invested to research and improve. Wars generally do that, but so can extreme eceonomic conditions - North Sea oil wouldn't have happened without the '73 oil crisis which caused the cost of deep-sea wells/drilling to become viable. The structures needed to support this activity were then developed as the cost justified it.

There are lots of other examples like IBM mainframes of the 70's (that required their own dedicated rooms to operate) to PDAs of the 90's. Had you been around in the 70's (were you?) there is no way that you would have agreed that a computer with the same processing power would be available hand-held size within 20 years.

The current developments with the ENV bike (range 100 miles currently and a top speed of 50mph - inventors say this will/can increase), the portable fuel cell pack that goes with it, the hydrogen production unit that is no bigger than a shoe box and also the development of ethanol production from sugar beet, corn, wheat, barley and other crops seem to suggest that this is now heading in the right direction and that the advances mentioned are providing the kick-start needed. And let's not forget the bike is a British invention (is there a way to attach music to these posts - a bit of Elgar might fit nicely at this point?)

Also have a look at this article about a heat and compression driven process plant (damnation - it's American) that has been built and that will turn various items (like old computers and turkey remains) into fuel. Process claims to streamline and accelerate the same processes that our planet takes to produce coal to permit old waste/rubbish to be converted in hours rather than millions of years. At last, a useful home for all those Thanksgiving dinner leftovers!

Will search out earlier Hydrogen discussion now - can you point me in the right direction?

$100?? I'm paying equivalent of $100 every time I fill up my Audi A4 with 15 gallons here in good old Blighty (all right, I do get a bit more than 8 to the gallon - nearer 30, but it still smarts!)

So, future Harleys wil say po-tat-o, po-tat-o when they need fuel? :lol:

Harleys say po-tarht-o, Triumphs say Po-tayt-o.

BTW I work in the area of the shipping market that moves vegoils and chems in bulk. The amount of ethanol moving now is well on the increase. Palm oils of the quality to create bio-fuels are also going the same way. As usual when the market gets over excited about a new use for its commodities, it over-reacts, as was the case last winter, and so there are still plenty of stocks of the stuff in north west Europe storage (sourced mainly from S.America and Far East for Palm oils). Reports of heavy government investment in Europe and the States in all such areas of alternative energy probably has a lot to do with the bubble that's arisen

The higher gas costs here in Cincinnati have my attention but only becuase of the effect that they have on the majority of people here.

For me personally it's just been another nudge to start riding my bike again and the benefits have been both quickly realized and worth the extra effort.

I normally make my 10 mile round trip ride to work and back 3-5 times a week and if the weather is good, an extra 10 or 20 miles on the weekend.

For all practical purposes of description, I sit in a cold dark office staring at a computer screen during the day for 8-11 hours....then come home to a cold dark room and sit in front of a computer for a few hours after that. If there is someone that could use a little time unplugged, that would be me. I dont watch TV and would prefer not to **ever** have to go outdoors. :blush:

It's not easy getting the extra BS around to bike to work in the morning and dealing with the weather and the traffic. It has certainly improved my overall outlook though and now I can feel the difference through the day when I drive the car to work.

The truth is that I have not seen many people riding their bikes around instead of driving, and that would include the people at work with high end bikes even though they dont live far away. There is a man in our department that regularly goes to the bike trails after work and on the weekends to pedal away 50-100 miles at a time. He also drives a SRV. I don't get it. I suppose it's just too much of a nerd alarm that one is actually riding a bike to work instead of driving.

I guess I just dont give a crap about being cool and see all the benefits of saving gas money to spend it on pizza. :)

Because riding a bike on the street is dangerous. :eyebrow:

That may be. But I promise not to hurt any of the other drivers with my .44 unless they are threatening my life. :)

There's the solution to the high price of fuel, Slang. Drive the car, take the .44 to the station. Tell 'em its the S&W discount... :worried:

Good idea Elspode. When I escape and take over your country, your life will not only be spared but you shall be installed as the Minister of Spiritual music. :gift:


Might I suggest another solution? Invade a country that has plenty of untapped oil and control it's reserves while pretending to free it's people from a nice patient, loving family man like me.

That should just about solve entire problem.

Actually, last I checked, Slang is not a fan of S&W due to their government pandering.