Sex with one or fewer partners is not a government strategy.

A government strategy - public policy - consists of many things: A media blitz about AIDS - What it is, what it can do, how one catches it, how to avoid it, how to find out if you have it and what to do if you have it; Free testing for anyone who wants it and not just sex workers. The male infection rate is FOUR times the female infection rate so testing only the sex workers is to miss 80% of the carriers. Testing everyone means that showing up for a test doesn't automatically characterize someone as a sex worker as it would if only sex workers were tested which has the effect of discouraging at least a percentage of them from testing. Free treatment for those without insurance. Its a public health hazard and the cost of treating the infected is far less than the cost of a rise in the infection rate.

These are just a few examples of public policy initiatives that could be implemented and have been at one time or place or another. The thing is, they are all neutral to the legality of prostitution. And since legalizing something tends to increase its likelihood, than whatever AIDS is slipping through in spite of the efforts to contain it will increase by a factor equal to the increase in post-legalization sex-for-sale activity.

In jag's examples, legalization was part of a much broader public policy and budget initiative but legalization gets all the credit. Awareness, Free treatment, Condom programs, a media Blitzkrieg, etc., etc., etc., are all just ignored as having a bearing on the post-legalization decline.

The tactic of legalizing prostitution to lower the AIDS rate is also not, by itself, a strategy.

Yes, and?

Who's saying legalized prostitution is all you need to do? Of course you need a comprehensive approach, which isn't "Abstinence or monogamy only" any more than it is "legal prostitution is all you need to do".

Alright, if we take everything else as being the same:

"Regulated prostitutes tend to be cleaner prostitutes. HIV-infected rates tend to be stratospheric among the nation's streetwalkers. In Newark, 57% of prostitutes were found to be HIV positive, according to a Congressional Quarterly report. In new York City, 35% of prostitutes were HIV-positive; in Washington, almost half."13

"In contrast, brothels, which are legal in 12 rural Nevada counties, tend to be comparative paragons of public safety. The University of California School of Public Health, at Berkeley, studied the health of legal Nevada brothel workers compared with that of jailed Nevada streetwalkers. None of the brothel workers had AIDS, while 6% of the unregulated streetwalkers did. Brothel owners had a strong incentive to police the health of their employees, since they could face liability if an infection were passed to a customer."

From: Bovard, J. Safeguard public health: legalize commercial sex. (argument in favor of legalizing prostitution.) Insight on the news. 11(9):18. Feb. 27, 1995.

it is also important to note the difference in the make up of streetwalkers vs. nevada brothel workers if you want to use that study.

these aren't $2 ho's. more than half of them work in the adult film industry. most of the rest are up their for short stints as visiting escorts, from such places as Phoenix. escorts for the most part have a smallish group of regulars and don't take new clients without a referral. what that means is that A) they aren't taking on endless lines of men from the streets, B) they are generally more career oriented and think about what they do as a profession so they are VERY careful, C) they make BIG $$$$ so they aren't willing to take chances with their health for a quick trick.

the average streetwalker doesn't fit any of those characteristics.

You'll also note that the rate for the unregulated street walkers was only 6%.

Lookout - yet the streetwalker rate was 1/10th of that of Newark. Secondly, how the fuck do you know that most are visiting for short stints and work in porn?

Yes, pity that is entirely unrealisitic and gets in the way of solving the problem. It is a scientific fact that if noone ever fell over then casualty rates would fall too but boy, doesn't that sound silly.

Beestie: Much harder to have the free treatment, screening, handing out of protection etc if you're demonising the people involved and they're stuck under the thumbs of pimps and illegal brothels. I never said legalization alone solved the problem but it makes the other steps much easier.

streetwalking in Vegas is very limited. In fact, except for a few "locals" areas, it just doesn't happen. most likely in Vegas they had to use the hotel bar girls as their "street walker" contingent. most of those girls are on the escort circuit as well. the community knows if someone breaks the rules. that girl will not receive any of the courtesies that are depended upon in that arena.

as for how i know? i already stated - i associate with prostitutes. i know these girls. i know the community. i am not a part of it because i don't make any purchases... but they trust me to advise them from time to time.

edit: if you want to know WHY porn workers would go to the ranch and places like that... guys who really like "ivana hump" or whoever, will pay BIG$$$$$ to take a turn on their favorite little starlet. if a girl has the chance to make $500-5000 in an hour for the doing same thing that she usually does on camera for less money - she does it. and some of the biggest adult stars tour for that very reason.

The fact remains, when comparing apples to apples, legalizing prostitution appears to lower the HIV rate among the prostitutes.

If that is because when it's legal it attracts a whole different type of girl, so be it. But what ever the reason, the stats. remain.

I'm not sure you can make that assumption, this was a scientific study. Obviously I haven't studied it but I don't think you can assume they didn't know what they were doing.

As for the situation in thailand go there, you'll understand. Even by what lookout is saying about Brazil, puts it to shame.

i'm sure they knew what they were doing. but the problem is that in Vegas if they didn't incorporate the hotel girls into the study they would have too small of a subject group for their study to be worthwhile. if they DID incorporate them, then the results would be skewed by the community standards.

I think they took the most organized bunch (brothels) and compared them against probably the least educated most vunerable bunch (jailed streetwalkers).

Are you saying that the "Hotel Girls" would be worse off (HIV infection rate wise) then the jailed hookers? :headshake

but would those community standards be there in the same way if it wasn't legal?

I only saw Nevada, did they actually mention Vegas as the location of the study? :confused:

it isn't legal in Las Vegas. all the legal brothels are in different counties.

Jinx - i don't know where else in Nevada they would have been able to find more than a small handful of non-licensed brothel prostitutes so i would have to guess that they did the study in vegas. just a guess though.

Any city of moderate size has hookers, so they could have collected data in Reno and maybe Carson City as well.

A friend of mine's brother is a cop in Vegas. He worked vice for a while because he looks like an accountant rather than a cop, as well as because he grew up in Broomall and has an out of state accent. Until they got to know his face, he caught a lot of hookers who usually pick up on the cop vibe.