This is a tough exchange to read. Two people I like getting a real good start at each others' throats.

Pretty prime example of just how fucked up racism is, huh? It is so fucked up that it is difficult to even talk about it, and God forbid anyone jokes about it, unless they are a member of the oppressed minority.

This is all educational in a real uncomfortable way...

sorry, spodio.

I still like OC. I don't even harbor much ill will toward TS. I was trying to be vague about it at first, but i think it is a topic that OC wants to explore a little further. One of those theories i mentioned. I think that OC sometimes takes a side of an argument for the sake of drawing more out of it.......devils advocate, as it were...... I'm surprised that she has taken the side of TS in this though, because, i think he was definatley in the wrong in saying the things he said. It wasn;t all that big a deal, but it's sure becoming one now, huh?

It IS tricky when two people you like argue. it's bound to happen though, neh? I noticed it when dave attacked Lsyc shortly before he left. Dare I say that I think it might have had some bearing on what went down.

Oh, and OC, i've changed my mind......i'd like my balls poached, not boiled. :)

I didn't get the impression that she was on TS' side as much as she was just not on yours, fwiw.

I took TS' comment pretty much the same way you did btw. Askance is the first word that popped into my head at the time.

But, if he says its a joke then fine. I didn't take the retraction as seriously but as more of a dusting over of the tracks with a bit of a smirk.

aptly put

It’s strange how someone can hear (read) a statement and form a complete line of what they believe to be logical thought about the motives, attitude and even opinion of that poster.
When I read SM’s comment, I got the impression he was saying he had zero interest in Africa. By saying the ONLY reason he would possibly go there, would be the vestigial urge to revive slave trade, reinforced zero interest because that idea is so ridiculous and outrageous.
It didn’t strike me as a wistful desire to return to the plantation or the least bit racist, but I’m not one to look for hidden meanings. I try not to read too much into offhand comments but if something strikes me as strange, I’d rather ask than accuse.
When you get on your high horse it might turn out to be a tall jackass.

But you do realise that you just did the same thing? You took what you felt to be the real meaning of what TS said and formed your own opinions on it, as did LJ. You can't put LJ down for doing something you did differrently.
As for asking and not accusing, I agree with you but we all jump to conclusions.( For some people its their only form of exercise!)

i did start by asking, didnt i?

Yes you did. And when he pointed out vestigial, which means "A visible trace, evidence, or sign of something that once existed but exists or appears no more" you accused, based on your opinion of what he meant.
I think you made more out of a bad joke than it warranted. It's easy enough to pick on SM for himself, without his forefathers.

Absolutely, that was my point. Everyone does it but I wanted to point out that making serious accusations on your take, may be unwarranted because there are other ways to interpret the statement. My intention was not to censor but to caution.

Ok, to clarify.

1) My family owned slaves at one point
2) I think ethnic/social/cultural/racial humor is funny
3) I have a fucked up family history of my own: German/French and Scot/Irish
4) I in no way retracted my joke nor attempted to gloss it over
5) I tried to back away from the situation because what is happening now is what I expected to happen when irrationality sets in
6) I used the word vestigial in its biological sense because it's true:

ves·tige P Pronunciation Key (vstj)
n.
A visible trace, evidence, or sign of something that once existed but exists or appears no more.
Biology. A rudimentary or degenerate, usually nonfunctioning, structure that is the remnant of an organ or part that was fully developed or functioning in a preceding generation or an earlier stage of development.

7) The humor I was attempting was rooted in that we are an evolving culture but that we still have some junk social DNA left over
8) And there are still some jokes to br drawn from the picture if you can step away from the urge to make one travesty any worse than the other ones that have occured in this country
9) Like I said before all humor is rooted in someone's misforture. If nobody gets hurt, nobody laughs

In closing I'd like to say that I'm in no way mad at anyone or upset at this exchange. Just surprised.

Edit: CR

You pick some odd battles cougar. But if you want to call me a pussy for calling someone on a thinly veiled racist comment that was far from funny, you'd better pack a lunch.


This was never intended to be a battle. I felt something off about your comments that I didn't like, and when pressed, I gave my opinion, which can be bolied down to:

I think it was fucked up that TS made a joke and ended up being called a racist. And of all people, I'm suprised most that it was you doing the insulting. That's what bothered me in the first place. I like you, Jim, but I do not understand why you always feel like you have to stir the shit and open the cans all the time.

And Beestie is correct in that I'm not "taking up" for TS. I just don't agree with how you attempted to say what you said. If you wanna call TS a racist, don't be passive agressive about it, just fucking say it. THAT is the Jim I've come to respect.

And is that a 3 minute poach or you want em runny in the middle?

man. you call me a passive aggressive pussy and it's not a battle?
I was simply saying that i thought he was treading dangerous ground. He had the sense to let it drop. I intentionally DIDN;T stir the shit at that point, and kept my comment vague. I stated that I had made my point( and since you STILL don't get my point, it was this: you shouldnt make racist jokes in the 1st person) and I let it go. If anyone stirred shit in this thread it was YOU. The matter had settled, but you still wanted to talk about it. I usually try to see other people's sides of an argument, but I admit that i'm having a hard time doing it on this one.

You guys do realize that you're having an argument about how to have an argument?

no we're not.

Are too.