Well, there was that one little future terrorist that nibbled his Pop-Tart into the vague shape of a pistol...he ain't killed nobody lately.

Must be working.

Sarge, I read this article and thought of you. It's a veteran itemizing the weapons, ammunition, and equipment used against the protesters in Ferguson.

http://www.thenation.com/article/181...olice-weaponry

Sorry, I mean Ferguson the police officers, not Ferguson the community. The community protested, the police response turned them into riots when they didn't need to be.

You misunderstand, "broken window" policing is nothing like a classic zero tolerance policy. I'll give you THE example: New York City.

For years, the NY subways were a sewer of crime. Muggings, murder, open air prostitution in front of other passengers--not just the soliciting of, but the actual sex. The police were run ragged trying to keep up with all the crimes being committed down there, and barely making a dent.

Then a new police chief came in, a follower of the "broken windows" philosophy. And what he said was, forget the murders and muggings. We're obviously not stopping them anyway. Instead, we now do two things, and only two things--we catch, arrest, and fine every single fare-jumper, and we get rid of all graffiti. The trains had turnaround tunnels at the end of every line, and they literally stationed dozens of painters inside those turnaround stations who would paint over new graffiti within minutes of it going on. Meanwhile other staff would climb inside and clean every marker tag the punks had drawn on in the last hour, fix every broken seat. Kids would break in to the train yards at night to draw these massive tagged murals on the trains, and they didn't even try to keep them out. They just hired overnight painters to stand there and follow behind them, painting over it right in front of them, before the spraypaint was even dry. For the fare-jumping (and keep in mind, at this point approximately 70% of riders were fare-jumping,) they placed officers at every single turnstile, and handcuffed each one they caught together in a line, and made them stand there publicly until they had about 20. Then they marched them up to the street where a roving "police station" bus would come by and process each arrest and issue a fine within an hour.

And what happened next is exactly what the "broken windows" philosophy said would happen: with the environment changed, the fundamental social attitude of the people riding the trains changed. Muggings and murders plummeted. Normal people have the capacity to turn into thugs when placed in an environment where they feel everything is permitted, but normal people also have the capacity to hold themselves to a higher standard when the environment declares that this is not a place of chaos.

It worked so well that the police chief in question was brought in to be a consultant for the city as a whole when Giuliani was elected, and they did the same thing there: quit chasing endless murders. Instead, get the hookers off the streets, get the aggressive panhandlers out of Time Square, get the graffiti down everywhere. And again, major crimes plummeted all on their own, once these minor crimes were aggressively targeted. And not "aggressively" in terms of punishment, but in terms of swiftness and guarantee of getting caught. Studies have shown that the average person will not even risk a $5 fine if they are certain to be caught, but they will risk a $5000 fine if the chances are less than 50% that they'll get caught.

Why yes, I did just finish Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point," which details the NY crime story in great detail and also goes into several other examples of broken windows theory being applied with great success, why do you ask? :)

Sorry, this stuff excites me.

Using "broken window" policies in schools, for example, would mean putting kids in uniforms; taking two minutes at the end of every single class period to check for gum under the desks, and making the student sitting at that desk clean it off right then and there; and again, getting the graffiti off the walls every single night.

Do that, and the weapons and gang activity and drug dealing go down all on their own. It's counter-intuitive, but it's been shown to work.

Thanks for that explanation. It sounds very smart, and I support it too.

Yes, Clodfobble, thank you for your explanation. I would revise my remarks based on what I've read. I stand by my point that zero-tolerance policies are approximately equal to zero-intelligence/zero-hope-for-success-policies. But as you point out, "broken windows policing" IS NOT the same as zero-tolerance for crimes, even a subset of crimes. Respectfully, Big Sarge was wrong to explain it that way.

Not that he's alone; many people, many police agencies have interpreted "broken windows policing" in the same wrong way (and they're just as hosed for so doing).
The link leads to a short section that describes the evidence of the effects of broken windows policing, which is mixed. The goal of such a policy is to reduce social disorder, and a reduction in crime as one of the side effects.

Long story short: there is no consensus as to the effectiveness of such a policy. In my opinion, broken windows policing is like a specialized tooth, say, a canine, in the effort to take a bite out of crime; good for what it does, grab and hold. A mouthful of only canines though, or broken window policers is effective in a limited range of situations. Much better to have a varied set of teeth, multiple approaches to cut, tear, and grind up the criminal element. This link describes what's working and what's not in my own city's police department.

The police incident probably wouldn't have happened if that Ferguson neighborhood had a community watch.

Maybe they could get George Zimmerman to organize one.

I just read a book(!), Zero History by William Gibson, the cross-over of military clothing to street fashion was one of it's main plot devices.

Hey guys, there is more than one form of broken window. As you surmise, I used the pattern I described. This was based upon my tenure of a vice/narcotics task force. Over my years I saw the transition in my area from Chicago based gangs to Meth heads with ties to Mexican Cartels through McAllen, TX. My articles were regularly published in the DEA Quarterly Intelligence Bulletin, MS Association of Drug Enforcement Officers, and Police magazine. I was one of the major "preachers". I did this after working as a DARE and GREAT officer in the schools. In addition. I was writing grants for universal hire under the COPS (Community Oriented Policing) program funded by DOJ. Essentially, I chose what worked best for communities that were besieged with street level narcotics dealers and resulting in related crime to drug abuse. If you do a search for me under TOP Cops, you will see the award I received. Also, you can pull up articles I published in Police magazine. Warning, you will probably see other things to include a major First Amendment case and others. I have stated here before, I wasn't that nice of a person for quite awhile. I guess I should mention I am currently involved with a use of force case in the 5th Circuit.

As far as the equipment being used in Ferguson, the vehicles and weapons are not from the Defense Re-utilization Program. The only items I saw that were likely from the military are the knee/elbow pads, kevlar helmets, and uniforms. I saw none of the MRAPs or HMMWVs that have been the point of contention. The weapons, vehicles, LRAD, radios, and chemical munitions would have come from grants under the Dept of Homeland Security. I know because I have written grants through both. Don't listen to the crap about tanks from the media. They are not available to law enforcement agencies.

But did you ever wear your rank on your elbow?

Attachment 48904

Nope, I had mine tattooed on my butt a long time ago. It is kind of droopy, but I'll post a pic if you want, but it is a few years old. I am grayer now.

Soooo....does the 'incorrect' version of 'no broken window' policy explain the preponderance of stop and frisk (and pull-overs) on people of color?

Or is it just another way to fill prisons?

stop and frisk based upon Terry vs. Ohio is a great tool. Since NYPD has been forced to curtail their practice, there has been a rise in gun violence. Another fantastic tool is RICCO. I can get you convicted based upon association rather than overt criminal act.

:facepalm: