What I can't condone is a school that ignores bullying and then punishes the victim for fighting back.

Violence should be the last alternative. And I bet it was in this case.

If you want this kid to learn to handle problems without violence, you have to provide an environment in which that can occur.

He 'got what he deserved'.
He 'should have shot him'.

Maybe a happy medium would have been a knife in the lower abdomen?

There are some people with a serious lack of understanding of bulling here. Do you really teach that stuff to your own children?

These actions rarely stop bullys, indeed provoking a reaction is generally what they're after, they love it, it pretty much ensures you'll get it next time too - not the reverse.

The big guy's reaction was understandable and he shouldn't be punished but the smaller kid definitely should and whoever was holding the camera should get the same. If it was up to me everyone who stood by and did nothing when the smaller kid would get it too.

No. Mature adults who live in a mythical land where calmly discussing our differences inevitably leads to conflict resolution and a healthy round of hugs don't condone that behavior.

The rest of us live in the real world where sometimes use of necessary and, in fact, desirable. I would much rather the little bully get jacked at this stage in his life and hopefully learn a lesson (doubtful with an apology seeking mother) rather than wait until he is older and the stakes and pain are much higher.

Of course you say you would, because you're a tough guy wanna be. When you could have shot the guy in the coffee shop, you didn't. You kicked him like a little girl. Poser.

Yep, you got me nailed down. Damn, I guess I'll just sit here and diddle my wanna be self.

Of course, the example you just used is a perfect example of how things should go, imo. I used the appropriate level of force to stop the guy and then I stopped. I didn't skulltap him to show how awesome I am. Threat eliminated, problem solved. Of course, I didn't stow my weapon and give him a hug so I was prepared if the dumbass wanted to escalate the violence further.

Seems to me this kid did the same thing. He responded to provocation with an appropriate level of force, watched to make sure the threat was eliminated, then walked away.

How do you think this should have gone and what would you expect the outcome to be?

Be specific.

You don't need to be overly specific. At this stage in the game we don't need the social security numbers for each of the government appointees you would like named to the commission to settle the differences between the boys.

I tire of this.

That's usually what happens when you wade in with your smartass pseudointellectual quips and then someone asks what you would rather have happened. Bye bye.

I wasn't suggesting that I as an auntie, looking on have an insight into parenting. I was saying that that the parents I am closest to and know best (my mother, my brother and my SiL) would not find that video entertaining, or even salutary. They are parents and they would not share your view.

That's all I was saying. This isn't about parents having one view and non-parents having another view.

And I had plenty of lessons growing up. My mother was a wonderfulparent, and would absolutely have helped me draw lessons from those occasions. But she wouldn't do it in a way that lacked sympathy.

I'm not even suggesting that my parents didn't encourage me to fight back against bullies. On one occasion my Mum, at her wits end with me keep returning home from playing outside, in tears from being bullied by another kid (bizarrely also called Vicky) actually sent me out once to have a go back.

It isn't the fact that the kid fought back I have the biggest problem with. It's the fact it is plastered all over the internet where adults are taking pleasure in seeing it. It feels fundamentally wrong, to me, for us as adults to take any kind of satisfaction in a child getting hurt, no matter how much they brought it on themselves, and no matter what gutlevel joy we might have at the sight of a bullied kid striking back.

Cite, or go punch someone, tough-guy-wanna-be.

The fat kid did the right thing and more kids should do it. Someone needs to buy him an ice cream and give him a pat on the back.

Would you say the same thing had his piledrive move broken the other kid's neck?

Dana, to clarify, the only thing you've said that I have taken exception to was, to paraphrase "How would you feel if [the bully] was YOUR kid?"

My point, as regards this, is that as a parent your job is not to be sympathetic, but to be an arbiter of values and principles that your child needs to internalize in order to be an effective adult. I would ask you whether you think any important lesson you've ever learned in your life was "easy" or came at absolutely no cost? I would say, of course not. Life is hard. Hard lessons are what stick.

Ok, Flint. That's fair enough. I just don't see a need to have no sympathy along side the message is all. Maybe that's just a stylistic difference, I don't know. I also disagree that a parent shouldn't or can't also be the child's friend

My mother is and pretty much always has been my friend. There was no doubt in my mind as a kid that she was also In Charge. She was able to do The Look. That was enough most of the time. But honestly, if I really crossed a line and did something horrible, parental anger, from either mum or dad wasn't half so upsetting and impactful as disappointment. We weren't a discipline heavy household. Things were generally talked through, not dealt with in anger. Smacking just was not something we did. Same goes for my Brother's family. 'Punishment' simply doesn't happen. Never really has. That's just not the model my brother and his wiife work on. Their girls are incredibly well-adjusted. They are also good friends.

Not saying that way is right. Just saying that the punishment/enforced lesson model isn't the only way. And parental authority is not necessarily in conflict with friendship.