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casimendocina 06-19-2010 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123 (Post 664112)
My brother asked me about the 'you and I/you and me' thing. I told him whatever works alone is what you use.

You and I went to the movies. (I went to the movies.)

It doesn't matter to you and me. (It doesn't matter to me.)


I hear it misused by some fairly intelligent folks.

Wouldn't you just say "We went to the movies" (Here 'you' and 'I' is being used as a subject.
AND
"It doesn't matter to us/either of us" (whereas here it's being used as an object and this is what determines which pronoun you use).

If I've missed the point completely (entirely possible), let me know immediately.

Shawnee123 06-19-2010 10:16 PM

You've missed the point completely. ;)

Those sentences were just simple ones I came up with to make the point. No one ever has to go to the movies if they don't want to. :lol:

BigV 06-22-2010 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 663860)
It's a singulare tantum, according to the plurale tantum Wikipedia page.

"This is the evidence."

"These are the evidence."

I stand corrected. Undertoad is right, singulare tantum. Evidence is "singular".

Cloud 06-22-2010 03:08 PM

So, to reiterate:

"
Quote:

The only evidence were the affidavits."

Now, to me, that's incorrect agreement between the subject and verb. If "evidence" is the subject, then it should read, "The only evidence was the affidavits."
Do you think I'm right, and it should read, "The only evidence was . . . "?

BigV 06-22-2010 05:31 PM

I think it is an unnecessarily awkward construction. I think your suggestion is an improvement. I think another improvement would be "The affidavits were...". That way you can marry the subject/verb agreement *and* keep the original singular evidence.

Cloud 06-22-2010 08:26 PM

thanks.

Undertoad 06-23-2010 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV (Post 665524)
Undertoad is right, singulare tantum. Evidence is "singular".

How about "advice", I was just thinking about that word, is that plural or singluarey?

"I got lots of advice"

"I got one person's advice"

but one wouldn't say "I got a good advice from my friend"

glatt 06-23-2010 12:40 PM

same with "water" and "smoke"

Shawnee123 06-23-2010 12:41 PM

Yeah, it would be "some good smoke" as in "damn, that was some good smoke your friend had." :D

glatt 06-23-2010 12:51 PM

Although I suppose you could say you want a smoke.

limey 06-23-2010 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud (Post 665525)
So, to reiterate:

"

Do you think I'm right, and it should read, "The only evidence was . . . "?

[professional linguist]Yes. [/professional linguist]

BigV 06-23-2010 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 665772)
How about "advice", I was just thinking about that word, is that plural or singluarey?

"I got lots of advice"

"I got one person's advice"

but one wouldn't say "I got a good advice from my friend"

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt (Post 665774)
same with "water" and "smoke"

"This is my advice."
"These are my advice."

"This is the water."
"These are the water."

"This is smoke."
"These are the smoke."

In each case, these words ring singular to my ear. So, since there isn't a plural form of these words, that makes them singulare tantum. Additionally, they are examples of mass nouns. Ones that can't be quantified by a number, in contrast to collective nouns, as Cloud identified "evidence" earlier, in error I believe. I think evidence is another mass noun.

Also, in the examples quoted above, the change in subj/verb agreement was happening with the count modifier. "This is the (one)" "These are the (several)". The very fact that you attach this counter is because they're uncountable. What you are counting is not advice, it's "lots" or "person".

HungLikeJesus 06-24-2010 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123 (Post 664112)
My brother asked me about the 'you and I/you and me' thing. I told him whatever works alone is what you use.

You and I went to the movies. (I went to the movies.)

It doesn't matter to you and me. (It doesn't matter to me.)


I hear it misused by some fairly intelligent folks.

When I leave a voice message for my wife I often start with, "Hey, it's me..."

But I wonder if it shoud be "Hey, it is I..."

Shawnee123 06-24-2010 08:32 AM

Probably, but it is a causal relationship where casual created a casualty of the more formal language.
Quote:

But I wonder if it shoud be "Hey, it is I..."
I call, therefore I am.

HungLikeJesus 06-24-2010 08:36 AM

I blame it all on Janis Joplin and Kris Kristopherson.


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