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Redux 11-29-2009 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 613491)
It makes reimbursements, states have to pony up the money. States have to ask for it in the form of vouchers which are submitted to the feds. It no way covers the small state roads and bridges.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06572t.pdf

Most of it goes to Federal Highways, some of it to mass transit. But by and large road projects are funded in each state by a majority of State funds, not federal dollars, unless it is a Federal highway.
Nope.

The Highway Trust Fund revenue is dedicated to the Interstate Highway System and "certain other roads" (and mass transit).

Those "certain other roads" being those roads/highways (and bridges) in the National Highway System. The Interstate makes up about 30% of the NHS...the bulk of the System are roads/highways (many two lane highways) administered by the states and eligible for federal funding from the Trust Fund.

Overall, the NHS include only about 4 percent of the nation's roads, but they carry more than 40 percent of all highway traffic, 75 percent of heavy truck traffic, and 90 percent of tourist traffic.....ie these are critical to the nation's economy.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 02:17 PM
Sorry your numbers are not supported by the facts. It is estimated that a states road income comes from 55% HTF and Gas tax. The gas tax includes that which is administered by states.

Redux 11-29-2009 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 613495)
... It is estimated that a states road income comes from 55% HTF and Gas tax. The gas tax includes that which is administered by states.
The 55% of HTF pays for the 4% (approx) of the roads (NHS, including the Interstate)...and the state gas tax pays for the other 96 percent of state roads.

It is those 4% of the roads/highways in the NHS that are most critical to the economy and thus are included in the HTF.

When the HTF is depleted those state-administered roads in the NHS suffer the consequences.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 02:23 PM
How about that, the GAO has states that the money was also diverted for other costs and spending as well.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09729r.pdf

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 613497)
The 55% of HTF pays for the 4% (approx) of the roads (NHS, including the Interstate)...and the state gas tax pays for the other 96 percent of state roads.
That is what I said. The majority of state roads and bridges are paid for by the state.

Redux 11-29-2009 02:27 PM
The fact remains that the HTF is not sustainable at the current tax rate...and why many believe, particularly those with a direct interest (like the trucking industry), that an increase (the first in 15 years) is needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 613499)
That is what I said. The majority of state roads and bridges are paid for by the state.
No..you said the HTF only pays for the Interstate System. (Merc: "A federal tax would only go to the Interstate. It would do little to repair the nations ailing roads and bridges")

The 4% of the most critical ailing roads and bridges are funded through the HTF.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 613501)
The fact remains that the HTF is not sustainable at the current tax rate...and why many believe, particularly those with a direct interest (like the trucking industry), that an increase (the first in 15 years) is needed.


No..you said the HTF only pays for the Interstate System. (Merc: "A federal tax would only go to the Interstate. It would do little to repair the nations ailing roads and bridges")

The 4% of the most critical ailing roads and bridges are funded through the HTF.
Ok. Can you back it up? Let me see your data from the GAO or DOT.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 02:39 PM
Well the majority of it is not going to the roads and bridges...

Quote:
Federal Highway Administration: FHWA obligated nearly $28 billion from the HTF for
purposes other than construction and maintenance of highways and bridges during fiscal
years 2004 through 2008. Of the nearly $28 billion, 13 percent ($3.8 billion) went toward
transportation enhancement projects and the remaining 87 percent ($24.2 billion) went
toward safety-, facility-, planning-, and other-related projects.
linked above

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 02:52 PM
From the GAO

Quote:
The responsibility for building and maintaining highways in the United States rests with state departments of transportation in each of the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. In addition, local governments finance road construction through sources such as property and sales taxes. In 2004, state governments took in about $104 billion from various sources to finance their highway capital and maintenance programs—44 percent of these revenues came from state fuel taxes and other state user fees, and 28 percent came from federal grants. Sources of state highway revenues in 2004 are shown in figure 1.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06554.pdf

SamIam 11-29-2009 02:53 PM
1 Attachment(s)
Colorado, at least, does get federal funding to pay for all sorts of highway projects that do not include the interstates. More federal assistance would free up state tax monies to go to other things besides road construction. I don't think Colorado is alone in this respect.

Quote:
LITTLETON — With one quick tug of the rope, Gov. Bill Ritter pulled the curtain off a new road sign on Belleview Avenue just west of Santa Fe Drive on Tuesday morning.

The sign is the first of many highway markers that will alert drivers to road projects funded by the federal stimulus package signed by President Barack Obama in February at the Museum of Nature and Science in Denver.

Joined by representatives from the Federal Highway Administration, the Colorado Department of Transportation and local officials, Ritter touted the $1.2 million project to resurface one mile of Belleview between Federal Boulevard and Santa Fe Drive in Arapahoe County as well as replace the sidewalks and gutters along the stretch of road as a positive step forward for the state.
http://www.coloradostatesman.com/con...ghway-projects

Redux 11-29-2009 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 613503)
Well the majority of it is not going to the roads and bridges...

Quote:
Federal Highway Administration: FHWA obligated nearly $28 billion from the HTF for purposes other than construction and maintenance of highways and bridges during fiscal years 2004 through 2008. Of the nearly $28 billion, 13 percent ($3.8 billion) went toward transportation enhancement projects and the remaining 87 percent ($24.2 billion) went toward safety-, facility-, planning-, and other-related projects.
linked above
Sigh....No again.

You are reading it incorrectly. The majority IS going to roads and bridges.

The last HTF expenditures were authorized under the SAFETEA act and included more than $240 billion over those five years (2004-08).

If $28 billion (out of the total $244 billion of HTF during those years was for purposes other than highways)....that means, almost 90% of the $244 billion went to highways. In fact, that $28 billion sounds way to low to me.

Cites? Nope...you have demonstrated repeatedlty that you wont accept any data other than your own.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 613506)
Siigh....No again.

You are reading it incorrectly.

The last HTF expenditures were authorized under the SAFETEA act included more than $240 billion over those five years (2004-08).

If $28 billion (out of the total $244 billion of HTF during those years was for purposes other than highways....that means, almost 90% of the $244 billion went to highways.

Cites? Nope...you have demonstrated repeatedlty that you wont accept any data other than your own.
It is the GAO's data, not mine. As I stated before, the majority of roads and bridges in a state are paid for by the state, not the federal gov. The projects which are consistantly approved for funding from the Fed via the trust fund are interstates, as the GAO report other things and roads are paid for as well. The 90% you site still is not the majority of the expenditures of money for a particular road in a state, those are by state funding as reported in the GAO report cited above.

You have yet to support your numbers. If you have the numbers I will be glad to look at them.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam (Post 613505)
Colorado, at least, does get federal funding to pay for all sorts of highway projects that do not include the interstates. More federal assistance would free up state tax monies to go to other things besides road construction. I don't think Colorado is alone in this respect.



http://www.coloradostatesman.com/con...ghway-projects
Yes, that is also in the one of the GAO reports I cited, many states are in the same boat. It is apparently an acceptable use of the funds.

Redux 11-29-2009 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 613508)
.... You have yet to support your numbers. If you have the numbers I will be glad to look at them.
Honesty, if it were anyone else, I would provide the data.

The fact remains that the HTF pays for highways, roads, bridges in the NHS.

I just have the patience or interest to continue this discussion with you.

Take that anyway you want.

TheMercenary 11-29-2009 03:10 PM
From another GAO report:

Quote:
3Under current law, expenditures from the highway account of the Highway
Trust Fund are generally restricted to those roads that are not classiCed as local
or rural minor collector roads.
http://archive.gao.gov/paprpdf1/159940.pdf


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