hey, I was a scout and it was great. it's a totally different ball game over here right now and I wouldn't be suprised to learn that time plays as big a factor as country.

Boy Scouts has the anti-gay thing, but GS does not. They are, of course, two completely separate organizations. In fact many Christian groups have issues with GS because they don't push the straight, hetero, Christian, narrow minded core values. That is why American Heritage Girls was founded.

My daughter has been in GS since 1st grade, and I've been a co-leader. Also I was in GS as a child, for 7 years. So I know whereof I speak and I hate to see the program maligned.

Of course you're going to get a few bad apples, but for the most part, GS policy and culture is very accepting of diversity in all its forms.

As for the YMCA, we've had a bit of involvement with it through my daughter's gymnastics team and various little-kid sports teams. Because I am a Christian (Episcopal) I have a hard time seeing it through a non-Christian's eyes, but I don't think they're pushy at all. In fact the YMCA near us has one of those freebie paper racks in which are sitting many copies of a local Jewish publication. If they were pushy about the "C" for Christian, I wouldn't imagine they'd allow that.

The only time I've been witness to a prayer of any kind at a Y event was as a grace before meals at camp, and a pre-competition prayer from the gymnastics team. *That* was pretty serious Christian stuff, but that was the influence of an individual person (the director) not the organization policy and nobody was forced to pray along, just sit there respectfully.

Just my observations.

I was not maligning the girl scouts. Sorry if that was your interprestation. I will now, though -They're just irritating with all their goddamn cookies. :p

You're just jealous because you can't get a piece of the cookie action for your teams.

Well, they go on sale in January. I'll be happy to take pre-orders. ;)

The original Parent Trap with Haley Mills just came on. I was reminded of this thread (in which I also managed to completely piss off Ms. Monster-sorry!) as I am guessing this is the sort of representation referred to.

Fiction, yeah, but the film resonates for me because it pretty much was what my experience was like. Although very idealized, and 10 years older than when I grew up, I grew up in a ranch house in Northern California and had that same damn blond pixie haircut and went to the same type of camp. I don't remember the lesbians, but they might have been there. (I still think the house is fabulous. And so is Maureen O'Hara.)

We didn't wear those dorky uniforms at camp, though.

We wore them at school.