Yeh the guy with a wet finger in the air knows so much more. I mean they are selling those DVD's are they? Not a very objective source based upon the headline.

Today’s environmental movement behind global warming hysteria is a direct descendant of the movement that defeated the possibility of nuclear power in the United States 30 years ago. In a typical fashion these environmental activists have declared the debate closed and will accept no further questions on the subject. They prattle on about sustainable living with ingenious ideas like the no flush toilet. They brag about living “off the grid” in houses with solar panels without giving a second thought to how the glass, steel and tiles of those solar panels require the very factories and refineries that they wish to see shut down. These people have no idea how the industrial world works. Our lives depend on what fossil fuels can do for us. Our lives depend on the manufacturing of plastic, steel glass, paper plants and pharmaceutical plants. The environmentalists want our lives to depend on what windmills can do for us. That’s right windmills which can’t even produce enough energy to manufacture more windmills are supposed to give us everything else we depend on to live our lives.

National Review finds 50 things to object to with Waxman-Markey

Good work by them. This one, for example, blew me away:

Why are union rules forced in a bill about cleaner energy?

From the looks of the 50, everyone who had lobbyists in Washington got a finger in the pie. The big energy companies all now support it because they get, basically, free money. Labor supports it because of the above.

Monsanto supports it because there are farming regulations that will promote weed growth, thus more need for Roundup herbicides in farming. I shit you not.

There are rules about televisions. Faucets. Candelabras. Nuclear energy is not counted as renewable. It continues the ethanol madness. It's full of corporate welfare.

This bill is a major fuck. If it passes, it will be the first thing to really anger me about Obama, because I did think he would make more of an effort to remove lobbying from the Washington culture. As of now, the lobbyists have won... they are more powerful than ever.

Makes it harder for non-union firms to compete, by forcing them to pay a decent wage and cuts out under the table illegals. Boo Hoo.

There's a lot of things I don't like about this bill, but that's not one of them.

:rolleyes:

Why is it some people get pissed off about workers getting paid fairly, but they never say ANYTHING about inflated executive wages... You do see the hypocrisy, do you not?

Well, it's not renewable. It just uses a nonrenewable resource that isn't a fossil fuel.

That being said, I do support it and think it ought to be a big part of our energy plan. As long as we follow something like the French model.

Let's compromise and say partly renewable, because the fuel can be reprocessed and part of it used again to generate electricity.

Absolutely. Obama's little Halo is going to be progressively tarnished if this one goes into law. If nothing else is exposes the Demoncrats in Congress as nothing worse than the Republickins they displaced.

You thought what? Keerist, Undertoad. I never thought that. 'S why I didn't vote for the guy -- why I'm standing in TEA parties these days.

You were expecting such a thing from a machine-politician Democrat? Oh please.

The Dems are sowing the seeds of their destruction.

Yes, but the difference is, as a strictly partisan if you're "right" about this, it's in a stopped clock sort of way. Here's wagering you never thought Obama would conduct Iraq and Afghanistan by listening to the Generals, as opposed to by his campaign rhetoric on the topic. I did, capice?

And furthermore the problem in this bill so far is the D House, not the D Senate or D President, so at the moment you are complaining about nothing. How stupid is that?

True statement. But is there any doubt about what will happen in the Senate or whether or not the president will sign it? No.

Your first sentence is difficult to understand clearly.
I am pleased he is listening to generals, particularly as it gives me hope the Dems will increasingly turn back towards sense, instead of away from contending for democracy and the beneficent effects of globalization. I also recall no indication during his candidacy he actually would behave as cagily as he has, and his party still can't bring itself to behave like it might be quite all right to win a war with anti-democrats even today, when they own the War-that-they're-not-calling-On Terror. With the usual conspicuous exception of Senator Joe Lieberman. The Republicans had and I think still have vision, while the Democrat myopia is still much in evidence.

They've been this feckless for a whole generation, UT, and unsuccessful at breaking totalitarianism for two. Winning this war with a Democratic President would constitute the first time that's happened since Truman. Truman left office three years and four months before I was born, and I'm going gray.

When's the best time to stop a bad law? Back when it's still a Bill. Now how stupid is that?

Link
Just a thought here.... He won't be president in 2020. I know its just poorly written, but still.

OK so the scenario goes like this. We cut our emissions and lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Heck lets say at some point, hopefully, we aren't at the mercy of these countries that hate the US. What then? What happens to the price of oil when we aren't buying it anymore?
If they cannot command the rates they currently are getting how will they support their "friends"? Are they going to simply go away? Will they be less powerful or more determined than ever and take even more drastic measures?

Many bills are enacted that impose standards and goals well beyond the Congress or the president who enacted those bills. That is how policies that require long-term action work. The environmental laws of the early 70s set emission (water and air borne) goals and standards for the 80s..then further refined and, in some cases, extended the standards when the bills came up for reauthorization.

Most affected businesses would tel you that they prefer long-term government policies that they can plan for (even if they oppose) rather than year-to-year government policy-making, in which business decisions are much difficult to make.


Any loss of the US market for Mideast oil will be easily replaced by the growing market in China and India..even if both impose the same emission standards as the US.