The Cellar - Will Soldiers Have to Use Private Ins?

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)

- Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

- - Will Soldiers Have to Use Private Ins? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19821)

boooring

less words plz

UR STPID. good enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 547443)

What I am drawing attention to is that this has forced the Republicans to tout socialized medicine as a good thing. Instead of saying how bad socialized medicine is, they have to say that the rest of us don't deserve it.

Well what I am drawing attention to is that health care received by soldiers is not socialized medicine. Where socialized medicine that the Republickins bitch about is provided by government to anyone, because they breath. Not because they have a contractual relationship, like soldiers, but because they don't have to do anything to get it and in many cases pay nothing into the system who gives it to them. Apples and oranges. No comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 547457)

I'm not sure on your angle there. He worked for a farm implement company and they did renogiate their contracts repeatedly. The benefits were significantly less than what the original agreements allowed for but at least now they actually can expect to get what they've agreed upon indefinitely.

Or until the next of the repeated renegotiations. I was referencing the common thread of anti-union rhetoric complaining about the cost of retired workers.

Quote:

Fair point but I don't really see the relevance. I've worked for companies that had large group plans that were serviced by a name brand insurance company even though the company self insured 100% of the payouts. How is that any different than this employer (military/government) deciding they can self insure for less than they would have to pay another organization?

They also run their own hospitals.

Quote:

All insurance by nature is a form of socialized medicine in that we pay a fee to a company to spread the risk over greater numbers so the obligation isn't too great for any one individual. I believe that is different than the single payer government run medical system some seem to want.

Well, that description in particular is exactly what a single payer government run system would involve, minus the company, though there would be other differences.

But either way, my point is that there is, in the United States, a government funded, administered, and operated medical plan that is good enough and well enough run that a hue and cry is raised over the idea that veterans would have to instead use a private plan that they are already covered under.

Any arguments against the single payer plan will have to come from somewhere other than competence. There are any number of other arguments against it, but we do know that the government can do it.

Quote:

the idea that veterans would have to instead use a private plan that they are already covered under.

in all honesty I don't know too many vets who would go to the VA if they had any other option. BusterB's experiences are but a sliver of some of the stories to trickle out of the joint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 547402)

You can't compare apples and oranges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 547488)

Apples and oranges. No comparison.

Apples and oranges: a comparison.

Like I said, you have to go with "everyone else doesn't deserve it", rather than "the Government can't do it well".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 547490)

But either way, my point is that there is, in the United States, a government funded, administered, and operated medical plan that is good enough and well enough run that a hue and cry is raised over the idea that veterans would have to instead use a private plan that they are already covered under.

That would be a change in the contract. Soldiers don't have to pay co-pays for care given in the service hospitals or VA's. Retired people pay for Tricare Prime if they want it, a one time fee of $450 for a family. Tricare Standard requires no payment but services are significantly reduced.

Movement to a civilian system of insurance would put them in a pool with everyone else unless the government would pay the fees and costs with no caps, unlikely, and it would subject them to someone who is often not trained to reject care they would otherwise be eligible for in the current system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 547496)

Like I said, you have to go with "everyone else doesn't deserve it"...

It's a tough world out there. I don't have the answer or solution to the larger problem. Becareful what you wish for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 547499)

Movement to a civilian system of insurance would put them in a pool with everyone else unless the government would pay the fees and costs with no caps, unlikely, and it would subject them to someone who is often not trained to reject care they would otherwise be eligible for in the current system.

Worse than that- it would subject them to someone who is trained to reject care they would otherwise be eligible for in the current system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 547509)

Worse than that- it would subject them to someone who is trained to reject care they would otherwise be eligible for in the current system.

SO we agree to disagree. Those people lack the skills to reject care. They do it on a cost basis only.

oh my semantics alert just went off

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 547317)

They came up with an idea, threw it out there, listened to the people who would be affected as to the reasons why they felt it was unfair, and decided it was a bad idea. Isn't that the way it should work?

yepparoo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 547340)

Nice try. They are treated as separate groups. There is no way you can equate the contract soldiers make to the US government to the masses of non-soldiers requiring health care.

Here's the rub, EVERYONE should get EQUAL care and benefits, IMO. I know some veteran's hospitals are way underfunded, my roommate in LA used to work at the VA hospital there. I think it's atrocious the way vets have been treated in this country with regard to their care after they've gone and fought and put their lives on the line. In some cases, the government completely denies there is anything wrong with them (Gulf War Syndrome). They should have the exact same care the president gets. And I believe everyone in this country should have access to that same care. But that's just me...