No one deserves more than you and those people. :hide:

:lol:

OK, he misunderstood what Obama was proposing, and took the opportunity to ask him about it in person when he had a chance. Nothing wrong with that.

Obama recognized Joe was mixed up and tried to explain to Joe that he mixed up and how the proposal would really affect all the Joes out there. Nothing wrong with that.

Now the way America unfortunately works, is anyone that comes out of nowhere into the publics view, surprise guests, so to speak, suddenly become persons of interest. The editors and desk chiefs, just know J.Q.Public is turning to the spouse saying. "who was that masked man?". Therefore every cub reporter just knows he'll get his break into the bigtime if he can only dig up some bit of info or a different angle on Joe... even better if it's dirt.

Now that Joe is a celebrity, The McCain handlers take him along to connect with all the "Joes" out there. Use him up and throw him back.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Plumbing is a good job. It's a good paying trade, that's always in demand, and very lucrative for a guy that is willing to hustle. Plus plumbers usually don't have to put up with cub reporters.

Sorry I can't see bris posts, but now that I do I can only say, pssst, anyone who works doing plumbing everyday can call himself a plumber. The rest of the her post is bs. His question to Obama set him back on his heels and caught hiim off guard because even Obama couldn't really answer the question well and he was embarrassed on national tv. It was a great scene to see a politician, any of them, get put on the spot and challenged on all of the BS and lies they tell people to get them elected. Pretty damm funny.

Bruce, I have no disdain for plumbers, good people. I have disdain for reporters and people who hold public office that abuse their ability to gather info on people and feed it to the press when they don't agree with their politics.

I think if you look at the video, even though Joe came out of left field, Obama handled himself well, and tried to answer Joe's question honestly.

Now, his entourage was probably pissed about their carefully orchestrated rally being blindsided by Joe, but I maintain the Man himself performed well.

Eh, you are probably right about the handlers, but I still say he was completely caught off guard. And I like that. Puts the realism back into their lies.

Sure he was, I strongly doubt he expected it, after attending 18 months of love fests, the latter of which were "professionally" organized. But again, the mark of a good leader is how he handles surprises, not the expected.

The Joe response was a gaffe by Obama, because he answered it with a tilt towards income redistribution for fairness' sake. This was never the wording he used when talking about his tax plan. He used the language of old-school Socialism, which is not appealing to 80% of Americans and which they had been very careful to avoid. This allowed the opposition to say the Obama plan was Socialism.

What lie? What embarrassment?

Obama answered the question well and completely.

I agree. I shudder to think how GWB would have handled it. Of course, in his mind he's always right.

That's a matter of perception, he didn't actually say that. Hell, isn't the graduated tax system supposed to be about fairness?

Pundits trying to interpret what he meant by the change in the type/tone of language he used in a one on one with a voter, compared to the language he'd used in official campaign publications/statements, is bullshit. Anyone can get any interpretation they want with those parameters.

If he talked to Joe the way the official campaign publications are written, instead of talking to him man to man, trying to explain in a way he thought Joe would see why he was taking that position, I'd have tagged him as a phony.
It looked to me like Joe understood and respected the candor, but that's just my perception.

Of course it is a matter of perception. Isn't all politics? The liberal left-wing saw a confident on the spot response to an unscripted question, the rest of the country saw a dude tripping over his previous statements to cover his ass. "No, it's not about income redistribution."

Okay, yeah, the main socialismo phrase he used was "spread the wealth", although that certainly wasn't the bulk of the discussion.

Well, I don't think you can divide the nation into "the liberal left wing" and the "rest of the country". You've bunched the conservative right wing, the moderate left & right, the centrists, and the clueless together, in a united position. You know that ain't true on anything.

Cover his ass? Nah, presented with a voter that is hostile because he pictures himself in the 5% of the big money earners someday, what's he going to do? Say, nannie nannie boo boo, suck it up? No, he is going to explain exactly how it will affect Joe and present the facts that it's not as bad as Joe thinks it will be and a scenario where it might even be good for Joe. I wouldn't call that tripping all over previous statements.

I must have missed that. But those three words, in one speech, during a two year campaign, builds a pretty weak case. For the voters that feel that way, that wasn't much of a vindication.

As for Joe, if he hadn't been poked with a pointy stick by the McCain camp, I think he'd have been satisfied with Obama's answer. I don't claim he'd have been happy with the plan or voted for him, just satisfied with Obama's treating him with respect.

UT, I know you follow the political scene pretty closely and know who's in what camp, who's saying what, and the overall subtle shifts of positions in the ebb an flow.
I don't. I couldn't tell you who's who of the advisors or pundits, no less the positions or strengths. But I do have considerable contact with a lot of people that don't follow it closely. Sometimes they exasperate me with their level of disinterest, but I do hear what they think and most, of both parties thought Joe was a non-starter.
Probably because non of them make $250k :)

True, I would have to redact that statement and point out that those groups exist separate from each other as small enclaves, none of whom agree completely.

Aw, baby boy? Little ole me bothers you SO MUCH that you put me on ignore? I'm honored!

So, by your logic, anyone who works as a medic can call him/herself a doctor, anyone who helps a fellow human being out is a social worker and any drug dealer is an entreprenuer! (which, actually, happened. I recall seeing an obit in the Cellar of a young man who was posthumously described as such--a "young entreprenuer"---of, uh, crack. Hey, a business is a business)

Anyway, I am TOTALLY psyched about pissing you off so much. Means I'm getting my spirit back. EXHCELLENT!