There is one irrefutable fact about the organic bananas I buy from my grocery store: they last for over a week before turning brown, while the regular bananas go from green to yellow to brown over the course of three days. It doesn't really matter if the hormones that ripen the crops faster affect me or not, it's already worth the extra expense if I don't have to go to the store twice as often.

Ali, we've gotten a bit off track. My point wasn't to advocate for or against organic produce, my point was that people will decide that something is better without having sufficient data to prove that it's better.

Here is my original post.


You've made the statement that "If you think your health is worth considering when you decide whether the purchase organic products or not, then buy the organic produce." But you later say, "There may be no irrefutable facts either for or against organic produce however, if I have the choice, I'd much prefer the product without pesticides and other pollutants."

To me this indicates that you've bought into the exclusivity argument (here using the organic example) while admitting that you don't have any basis for your preference.

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[I wasn't trying to get in to the organic debate, but here's the reasoning for my position: Before any pesticide can be sold in the US, it must go through years of rigorous testing, including tests by EPA and USDA and other government organizations. But chemicals used on organic food do not go through a comparable testing process, and are not necessarily safe. Raw manure is used as fertilizer and copper is used as a fungicide in organic farming. The health effects of copper have not been tested.]

It's not about exclusivity HLJ, and I think you'll find that for most people that choose organic they'd agree.

It's about believing there are health benefits from not ingesting poisons into the system. There's no buying into it and I don't need a study to tell me what must clearly be true.

Eating poison will make you sick.

NOW I remember why I didn't want to get into this debate :frog:.

Well, that's ok. ;) You'll probably find it's hard to convince someone that feels strongly about the health benefits of organics to change their mind.

Probably best not to have the argument till you can produce facts saying that organic is not better. :)

Yeah, it's on the same list with religion and Apple computer products.

I don't think so.

Religion is one thing.

Computers are different. There are pros and cons to apple just as there are to microsoft products. That comes down to personal choice and what suits you better.

Organics are also a personal choice.

The exclusivity thing only works when people are given an alternative reason to believe in (higher class, more healthy...)

And religion is.........?

How much copper is safe? At what point does it become a poison?

Grape seeds contain arsenic, you know. And heavy metals.

"poison" is somewhat subjective here.

ok, so how bout next time you sit down to dinner you spray your food with a nice dose of insecticide just before you eat it?

religion is about faith.

believing is about having certain facts presented and agreeing that they're correct.

fact, some people find the cost of apple products prohibitive so choose not to use them.

fact, organic products are not sprayed with poison so I choose to prefer them.

you have faith that they are not sprayed with organic poison ;)

Well, the certification process is fairly stringent over here, so I'm reasonably confident that what is labled as certified is indeed what it claims to be.

Other than that, I grow my own produce without pesticide and so does my dad who keeps me supplied every other week with stuff that i don't grow.

Our diet is by no means fully organic, but I just think it's a lifestyle choice which is important to work towards.

Speaking of lifestyle choices, perhaps the SA apartments banning people with tattoos were less concerned with them as tenants and more concerned with the wild life they might attract!

Could this happen with amorous armadillos in the area? :eek:

LOl! Oh, thank you for that. That goes right to my bodymod buds!

"Orangutan has fetish for tattoed blondes."

Don't we all? ;)

Is this a bad time to say that I grow organic apples?

Alright...I'm leavin'..........
:D