Okay, rk, answer me a question. At what point in the conception/pregnancy process does the feotus/baby's human rights outweigh the woman/mother's ?

IMO, as soon as we know, and not outweigh, equal.
But, politically I do not feel I have a right to outlaw abortion up to the second trimester, unless the father wants full custody.

There is no equal if a woman who doesn't want to have a baby is forced to do so. That means the baby's right to be born has been tested against, and outweighed the woman's right not to give birth.

You keep using the word "force" attached to something she decided to do.
Does not work.

Trying to find equality in abortion is near impossible.

It takes two to have a baby but only one will pay the consequences. One group focuses on one area and another group will focus on the other area and we get nowhere.

I am attaching the word force to what you seem to feel is a man's right in this. Any and all decisions about my body are mine. When and if I have sex and who with, whether or not I carry a child to term or seek medical intervention. Those are my decisions to make as long as the law allows abortion.

I would, in that situation, I hope, give full consideration to the man's feelings on it. But, if he and I haven't actually decided to get pregnant then we both took a risk: I risked getting pregnant, and he risked getting me pregnant. One of the attendant risks of getting pregnant is that I may have a child, with all the potential health factors that involves and also, possibly end up as a single mother whose career and future plans come grinding to a halt because the world turned upside down. One of the attendant risks of getting me pregnant would be that the potential child he might have had could be denied him. Both parties decided to sleep with each other. Both knew the risks. Every woman knows condoms can break. Every man knows a woman has the legal right to seek an abortion (in those countries where it is legal of course :P). Sleep with someone you are not actually planning a family with and you take the above, and a whole host of other, risks.

For the people that believe in this...

"The greatest inequality is to make unequal things equal"


Abortion:

Woman: Has risk of getting pregnant
Man: Has risk of getting woman pregnant

Woman: Has to endure pregnancy
Man: Does not have to endure pregnancy

These are naturally unequal.

To say that a man should have an equal voice in abortion is saying that we are making something that is naturally unequal and making it equal. I thought most people on this forum oppose this idea?

Right, and I am talking about changing that paradigm for the men who wish to accept their responsibility toward their child once it is made.

No, you are talking about changing that paradigm for the men who wish to accept their responsibility and for the women who get pregnant.

There is a lot of stating the obvious in this thread.
Tell me, how often do you think this would really happen?

How often do I think what would really happen?

Deciding to have sex is not the same as deciding to have a child. Duh. That is sooo 100 years ago...
If you're trying to suggest that women should only have sex when they are hoping/willing to get pregnant then I offer a hearty Fuck You.

That a man would want to take full responsibility and want the child for himself alone.

Thanks for your outstanding contribution to the wisdom and dialog of the thread. Especially since you can't read. :D

Yeah, skipped over most of your shit actually... such utter crap I thought it was Fresh... :3eye: