The Cellar - Second Chances

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And perhaps that the places where al Queda has been removed is far better now and that word spreads as well. If the insurgents learn that we are "helping" perhaps some will take up arms against al Queda as well - those occurences, although few as far as I have heard, have been invaluable.

They are still going to hate us, the foreign infidels. But if they back a nationalist movement, and just use the infidels to win back their country then kick us out.... hey, works for me.

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Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 (Post 364575)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/16/wo...ewanted=1&_r=1

Iran doesn't have as much influence as you think. Most of the violence comes from Saudi Arabia.

I don't believe the Saudi government is supplying arms that are killing the US troops.

There was something on the news tonight about about more than half the insurgents coming into the country are from Saudi Arabia. Maybe they are bored kids from well off families that can pack up and leave for adventure?

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That's entirely possible. Disaffected university kids fighting for a cause.

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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 364617)

I have no doubt about that. It is the source for much of the Wahhabist movement and hence an undercurrent of extremism.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 364612)

I don't believe the Saudi government is supplying arms that are killing the US troops.

Yet, the vast majority of American deaths are from arms that come from Saudi Arabia. The number of deaths resulting from Iranian arms are extremely small and most are most likely just coming from Iranian civilians.

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Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 (Post 364628)

Really? Got something to back that statement up?

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Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 364622)

That's entirely possible. Disaffected university kids fighting for a cause.

Could be... I have a feeling in the poorer countries, when the kid starts talking about going off to fight, Pop will slap him up side the head and tell him to worry about putting food on the family table.

These days Rami gets most of his supplies from the new American-equipped Iraqi army. "We buy ammunition from officers in charge of warehouses, a small box of AK-47 bullets is $450 (£230). If the guy sells a thousand boxes he can become rich and leave the country." But as the security situation deteriorates, Rami finds it increasingly difficult to travel across Baghdad. "Now I have to pay a Shia taxi driver to bring the ammo to me. He gets $50 for each shipment."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1989397,00.html

Pierce, this article supports your statements:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...s-sunnis_x.htm

But note my comments above. This is about support by extremists, monetary support, not really governmental material support.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 364629)

Really? Got something to back that statement up?

Yes, I have posted this article about three times already.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...cy/index1.html

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What do you make of the recent furor over the Iran government supposedly arming the militias and killing 170 American soldiers?

It's tragic-funny. There have been over 3,000 U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, which means more than 2,830 people were killed by Sunnis, the real insurgents. The way this has been advertised in the press is incredibly disingenuous. Money and weapons and personnel have been coming across the Saudi and Syrian borders for four years and have been directly aiding Sunni insurgents, who are responsible for the lion's share of U.S. casualties. It's the height of hypocrisy to attack Iran and not criticize Saudi Arabia.

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The whole thing is incredibly overblown. If a foreign country invaded Mexico, American weapons would start turning up in Mexico. There may even be senior American officials who are providing weapons to prevent that country from invading us. The Iranians may be doing the same thing. At a maximum, what the Iranian government is doing is arming people they see as their allies to prevent Sunni insurgents from launching attacks on them. Or from a radical Sunni state emerging inside Iraq. They see it as an act of self-defense.

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But if you want to know who is responsible for the fact that al-Qaida is succeeding in Iraq, it's Saudi Arabia. The most common nationality of foreign insurgents in Iraq has been Saudis. Where do you think all the money comes from to pay for these operations? It's from Saudi donors.

Do you even read my source Merc?

The media is overblowing Iran's involvement in the war. Of course they will supply arms to Iraq because that is their response to Saudi support. Over 90% of the deaths are a result from Sunni attacks, not Shiite. You can list all the media sources you want but that doesn't mean anything. If you want to argue, show me how the media sources are not overblowing the conflict.