The "victim" statistic, probably.

I said "target shooting," not self defense. If I thought a real gun would be beneficial for me to have, I'd have one already.

The day they come for my guns, they will get them bullets first. That's a fact. Another fact is that all individuals are born with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and part of having a life is having the right to defend that life BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

We have the right to keep any number of any kind of guns we want without any government oversight or records. ALL gun control laws are unconstitutional.

I hear a lot of people saying things like, "I want to exercise my 2nd amendment right" or my "Constitutional right" to own a gun.

Our rights don't come from the Constitution or from government. We're born with rights and government at any level has no legitimate authority or power to violate them or even to limit them. I don't require any permission from the government to own any weapon I want with any kind of ammunition I want, without any serial numbers or records of purchase.

My right to own guns is not for others to decide how I will exercise, and is not up for debate. My right to own guns is not associated with being part of a militia. Also, the reasons I want to own a gun are completely irrelevant as long as I don't use them to violate the person, property, or rights of a non-consenting other who is not doing the same to me.

If I want to prop up a wobbly table leg with a gun, it's my right to do so. If I want to build a house with walls made entirely of loaded and working guns, I have the right to do so.

Everyone is born with rights but once you join a society you give up some rights to be accepted in the society.

How are we born with rights? Did a little certificate pop out with your little head?

If our rights don't come from the constitution then gun controls laws (not having that right) are not unconstitutional, by that definition. Contradictory.

Again, where do your rights come from unless you are god or satan? (OH GOD before everyone freaks I'm being tongue-in-cheek...don't get on me about god or satan, or even santa.)

Having rights or not having rights is a societal concept. They did not just appear at birth.

Argue the right to own guns or not within our society, because that's where we are.

In other words: HUH?

Right now they come from my, and other's, arsenal. As our founding father's wanted it.
Molon Labe

I like melons as much as the next guy.

Are we BORN with rights, or are they afforded us by our constitution? Who was born with rights first, our founding fathers, or the first quadrapedal to become bipedal?

It's like being born with original sin, only opposite. Get the pope.

Wow.

Uh-huh, I'm not arguing that. What I was asking is if you really believe that firearms keep a tyrannical government at bay. Do you really think the population would rise up and overthrow the government should the need arise?

Honestly, I don't for one second. The small group that takes arms against the United States from within will be viewed as Waco-like extremists/terrorists, no matter what the reason for the revolt, and the complacent masses will back the ATF/FBI while watching the breaking news on CNN with little concern for anything more than the entertainment value of the spectacle.

What rights, besides the 2nd amendment, and how many do you think a tyrannical US government would have to take away in order to spark the masses to rebellion? I'll even go as far as to say it would be entirely possible to repeal the 2nd amendment, slowly, without violent reaction or much more than a strongly worded speech from the NRA. Handguns first, assault rifles next, then limit everyone to single shot bolt action rifles. Other governments have done it with ease. Run the proposals under the guise of safety, security, "terrorism", "for the children", and public benefit and the laws will pass.

People will continue to say that firearm ownership enables citizens to "overthrow the government when it becomes necessary" but it is little more than an outdated, fantastic dream that will never be lived no matter what atrocities the government imposes on the people. Fear of indefinite detentions and the force of organized armies in the present day always outweigh the fragmented will of armed individuals.

Our rights come from natural law, which is part of the laws of nature. Where does gravity come from? It's a constant. It's a universal law of nature and is no more or less immutable than our rights. Rights are undeniable and self-evident and are with us from the moment of birth.

If you're unclear about natural law or rights, I suggest you read up on them because they are the foundation of our laws in America.

And yes, all gun control laws are unconstitutional, and a direct violation of our natural rights.

False. Your rights end where another person's begin, but you do not "give up" your rights to be accepted in society. Society has no rights. Society is a collection of individuals. Individuals have no legitimate authority or power to deny another person to exercise their rights. They therefore can't legitimately grant this power to government.

The right to own a gun is within natural law, it's just like gravity? Since the beginning of time? I had no idea!

Gravity is pure physical science. Rights are a concept.

If the 2nd amendment were entirely repealed, it would do nothing to negate our birthright to own any number of any type of guns and ammo we choose without any government oversight or permission.

And yes, if the government were openly disarming citizens and attacking them on a widespread basis, the people would take over the government. There are very few in the military who would fire on Americans even if ordered to do so.

Well now you do.

Natural rights are no less immutable or deniable than gravity itself. They aren't a "concept" or an "idea". They are real, tangible, and undeniable.

As the founders said, they are self-evident.

Pull your skirt down, your snide ignorance is showing.

Molon Labe

When the Greeks came to Sparta they told the Spartans to lay down their arms...the Spartans replied "Molon Labe"...
"Come and take them"

Do I have the right to shoot and kill you?