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-   Philosophy (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   "Why does the world hate the Jews?" Article (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=12604)

DanaC 12-12-2006 04:52 PM
Well said Sheldon.

Equazcion, my comment about people abandoning their current beliefs or converting based, was in response to a comment made by Flint. I would imagine most people who change their religion don't do so lightly.

equazcion 12-12-2006 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldonrs
I have scraped smarter things than Paris Hilton off my shoes.
I understand the need to word it that way rather than "I have scraped smarter things off my shoes than Paris Hilton," because then it would sound like of the two of you, you and Paris Hilton, you're the one who's scraped more stuff off your shoes, but I think it would sound better if you said "I've scraped things off my shoes that were smarter than Paris Hilton."

DanaC 12-12-2006 04:56 PM
Umm...don't know. I think I prefer Sheldon's....just seems snappier.

Sheldonrs 12-12-2006 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by equazcion
I understand the need to word it that way rather than "I have scraped smarter things off my shoes than Paris Hilton," because then it would sound like of the two of you, you and Paris Hilton, you're the one who's scraped more stuff off your shoes, but I think it would sound better if you said "I've scraped things off my shoes that were smarter than Paris Hilton."
So long as my shoes are clean, that's all that matters. :D

equazcion 12-12-2006 05:05 PM
It's like, you start reading it, "I've scraped smarter things than Paris Hilton," and it sounds like you're saying you've scraped other people who were smarter than Paris Hilton, then you get to the "off my shoes" part, and you have to rethink the sentence. Whereas "I've scraped things off my shoes," makes it clear right away that we're talking about scraping something off shoes, not just going and scraping things. See what I mean? I know when I read it originally, I had to re-read it a couple times before it made fluid sense. Anyway it's just a suggestion. As far-reaching as the implications that this issue presents, I'm willing to concede to whichever version Sheldon decides on.

Sheldonrs 12-12-2006 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by equazcion
It's like, you start reading it, "I've scraped smarter things than Paris Hilton," and it sounds like you're saying you've scraped other people who were smarter than Paris Hilton, then you get to the "off my shoes" part, and you have to rethink the sentence. Whereas "I've scraped things off my shoes," makes it clear right away that we're talking about scraping something off shoes, not just going and scraping things. See what I mean? I know when I read it originally, I had to re-read it a couple times before it made fluid sense. Anyway it's just a suggestion. As far-reaching as the implications that this issue presents, I'm willing to concede to whichever version Sheldon decides on.
;) I'm gonna stick with the version I have already. It has a better cadence to my ear. But thanks for noticing it and making suggestions.

We now return this thread to the subject of Jews and hatred.

equazcion 12-12-2006 05:15 PM
Yeah I was gonna say, I didn't mean to halt the whole conversation, just present some comic relief. Please, continue. Anyone?

rkzenrage 12-12-2006 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by equazcion
I'm not sure if it's based on fact. But I did present some evidence that it's reasonable for people to make the assumption. Isn't it true that even non-evangelical priests are interested in converting people, that they feel they're doing something God wants, and when they do it they feel the person has been saved? I admittedly get this mostly from cultural references, TV and movies (quite a few individuals too), but that message does seem to be overwhelming. I don't think I've ever seen a priest portrayed as not holding those kinds of beliefs, and I'm not talking about contexts that aim to put Christianity down. I'm talking about everything, even realistic media, that's just all I've ever seen.

I hope someone has some information that might shed some light on whether or not this is true. Maybe there's a priest out there?

Anyway my point isn't to say anything negative about Christianity -- I'm only balancing the 'doctrine' you pointed out about Judaism. Jews may have it written down, but it is far from doctrine, and I'm pretty sure Christians have done more with their verbal version anyway.
The difference between what you are doing and what I have done is that you are lumping all those who follow Christ into one group... some are following a faith, others the business of the religion. The two have nothing to do with each other.
I have not done so with the Jewish faithful.

equazcion 12-12-2006 07:20 PM
I didn't say all those who follow Christ. I'm saying Christianity. I'm not lumping anyone into anything. I know plenty believers in Jesus don't hold those beliefs, but it still stands that it is doctrine for Christianity that everyone else is going to hell. It's not doctrine for Judaism that everyone else is "an ass," as you said.

rkzenrage 12-12-2006 07:23 PM
Quote:
...But Christianity... I mean don't they think everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to hell? That would seem to qualify as believing everyone else is "less" than them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by equazcion
I'm not sure if it's based on fact. But I did present some evidence that it's reasonable for people to make the assumption. Isn't it true that even non-evangelical priests are interested in converting people, that they feel they're doing something God wants, and when they do it they feel the person has been saved? I admittedly get this mostly from cultural references, TV and movies (quite a few individuals too), but that message does seem to be overwhelming. I don't think I've ever seen a priest portrayed as not holding those kinds of beliefs, and I'm not talking about contexts that aim to put Christianity down. I'm talking about everything, even realistic media, that's just all I've ever seen.

I hope someone has some information that might shed some light on whether or not this is true. Maybe there's a priest out there?

Anyway my point isn't to say anything negative about Christianity -- I'm only balancing the 'doctrine' you pointed out about Judaism. Jews may have it written down, but it is far from doctrine, and I'm pretty sure Christians have done more with their verbal version anyway.
I guess I misunderstood all of this then. Sorry.

equazcion 12-12-2006 07:27 PM
That's alright, I forgive you.

Flint 12-12-2006 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC
...my comment about people abandoning their current beliefs or converting based, was in response to a comment made by Flint...
To be specific: what I've posted here was the opposite of abandoning your beliefs. What I've posted was that your beliefs should be stronger than your loyalty to a social club; therefore if you're in a club that doesn't share your beliefs, you should stop being a member of that club.

xoxoxoBruce 12-13-2006 06:24 AM
Why? Maybe shit like this.:(

equazcion 12-13-2006 06:39 AM
Right, Flint, but again I don't think the average person has the courage to put that into practice.

DanaC 12-13-2006 06:49 AM
Alternatively, people believe that their grouping has it right, but that some people within it are pushing a harder line/slightly different interpretation and making it unpleasant, but not to the point that they are made to doubt the basic idea that unites them.


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