... see Martin Doutré for the loony Celt theories in New Zealand / Aotearoa .

I have also recently read that a very old bit of human has been found in America . The Native Americans want to give this bit of human a proper traditional burial , but the scientists say that DNA tests show that this bit of human does not belong to them , as it is a European .

Anyone know any more about that ?

Yeah.... google Kennewick Man.

C'mon. :eek6: OK, nice save. Then you would tell them they have toilet paper stuck to their shoe, instead of, they look marvelous.

It's the line of uncertainty. If I am unsure of what I think is true, but I am sure of what is kind, better to err on the side of kindness.

To steal a very useful acronym from Scott Adams of Dilbert fame, BOCTAOE

I don't think that lying to anyone under any excuse is kindness. Whether or not you cloud the lie in poetic lines about kindness nothing to do with the fact that you are lying to them. Even the feeling that you lie because you care about them is false, because you are belittling them in the process. You say "well, they would be happier if they thought this" but it really ends up being "well, they can't really handle it so I'd better make sure they don't hurt theirself". It is what is done with children, not adults.

In the end I think it boils down into happiness vs dignity

I'm not advocating lying. To lie implies an intentional withholding of a relevant truth. If I am uncertain of the truth, then I am not lying.

Mark Twain takes this question up nicely in a short story entitled "Was it Heaven? Or Hell?"

Worth a look.

If you intentionally deceive (or intentionally allow a deception to continue), outright or through any form of omission, it is a lie.
It ain't hard.

That's when I like to say, "I don't know." But then, I can offer an opinion.

Did I just miss the point by not reading the whole thread? Woops.

I think your on the money here that deception is a lie,and I think what's being proposed here is not deception though. It's simply allowing for the fact that your perception of truth does not have to be same as everyone Else's and therefore not forcing your viewpoint on another is the kindness. I'll try an example:

Let's say your friend gets a new haircut, and technically this haircut is a freakin wreck in the areas of straightness of cut, esthetically pleasing , or whatever reason you perceive. Your friend then asks you, "How do you like my new haircut?"

You say, "You look great!"

Deception is when you've said this because: you don't have the balls to express your perceived truth, you've said this in hopes that they will look foolish by proclaiming their great haircut to all they see, or any other motive that has intentions of allowing some pain into their existence.

Kindness is when you've said this because: you know your friend takes all criticism in a negative way and your perceived truth does no good by being expressed, you've said this because you truly see only greatness in your friend and the temporary effects of a haircut are meaningless to you, or you've said this because you're unsure whether you're perceiving a bad haircut or if it actually is a bad haircut.

Words and images surround us everyday, being interpreted in as many ways as there are people in existence. The only thing you can be absolutely sure of is whether you intended love or you intended hurt in your actions. Everything else is subjective.

:thumbsup: wise words there

:redface: Thank you skysidhe.

But, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. ;)
Maybe you're in the clear because your intentions are good, but that doesn't help the victim of good intentions gone awry.

Also, opening your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about is never a good idea no matter how good your intentions are. I hate to shatter your little 'my little universe, your little universe, it's all good' campfire song of a philosophy, but you can know a hell of a lot more than your own emotions.