Then don't regard it as such *shrugs*. It was merely a suggestion. You can listen as long or as little as you like, but let's be "real" here: to only listen for an hour/evening/week isn't going to create miracles, but hell, it's a start.

I've always wondered why that statement makes some white folks so dang crazy? And no Bruce, every subject that is discussed are not on *every* black mind.

My father is somewhat the same way.

Curious: what's "preaching hate" to the younger ones? :confused:

Well, as far as I'm concerned, NO ONE has *the* answer anyway. So, I personally listen to every suggestion, and pick the one that I have some common ground with.

How about asking Italians, Spanish, Chinese, Af/Americans, etc. what they are proud of? ;)

IMO, the government has a responsibility to take care of it's citizens, to a certain degree.

Notice people: I didn't say in EVERY sense, so don't get on my damn case about handouts, etc. :eyebrow:

The question is what has each of those groups accomplished?

Because it's being said by a group that is simultaneously bitching about not being included in our reindeer games.

But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? :confused: It's always good to go to the source.

TS:
Because it's being said by a group that is simultaneously bitching about not being included in our reindeer games.

And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing. :thumbsup:

AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)

Not to say that ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have SOME kind of recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here. Do you really have any answers of your own? Do you actually have an informed opinion based on research or study or do you just glom on to the most recent tidbit or the most strident voice of protest?

As far as sources, I believe that I have read enough history to be sure of the accomplishments of the non-black groups in my previous question, my point was to ask whether you actually have any clue of the accomplishments of the group that you are so busy trumpeting about.

So it's a case of sandlot politics?

So you're going to further perpetuate the stereotype by pretending that that whole "black thing" is a good thing and that people should just not try to understand?

I think that both camps have enough crossover members that that doesn't hold water. I've seen more than enough ethnically challenged people in this town as well as my share of people who are successful regardless of their heritage.

Originally Posted by ladysycamore
But why ask those who are not of those ethnicites? It's always good to go to the source.

Really? I was just thinking the same of you.

:haha: M'kay...

*shrugs* I thought an opinion was an opinion no matter where it came from.

"Originally Posted by Troubleshooter
What exactly is a people?
What do Italians have to be proud of?
What do Spaniards have to be proud of?
What do Chinese have to be proud of?
What do blacks have to be proud of?

YOU asked those questions, and IIRC, you asked them of Sycamore and NOT me. Boy, for someone who like to study, you sure ask a lot of questions that I wouldn't have expected for someone of your expertise.

Oh and BTW, yes I DO have a clue of the accomplishments of various ethnic groups, thanks.

Originally Posted by ladysycamore
And if you can't beat 'em or join 'em...then do your own damn thing.

You said it, not me. I was being somewhat facetious anyway..damn! :mad:

Originally Posted by ladysycamore
AAAANYway, there are just some things that I may mention that you will not possibly relate to in a way that another Af/American will relate to. (and NOOO I don't mean "studying" or "discussing" either!!)

LOL, again your assumptions. :rolleyes:
Never said it was "good" or "bad". It just "is". You can try to understand all you damn well want to. That doesn't mean that you will. And wow, sometimes, it's OKAYYYY to not understand everyone and everything! Whatta concept! :eek: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Originally Posted by ladysycamore
Not to say that ALL Af/Ams will necessarily relate, but I'd be willing to bet that they would have SOME kind of recognition/connection in some way. I just don't see why that's so "upsetting" to some people.

"Crossover" is great, but that's not what I was talking about. Sure, there are some things that all/any group can relate to, and find some common ground, but there will be *some* things that we will not relate to when it comes to certain parts of various cultures. I'm talking about connections on a deeper level than just "studying" and "discussing".

Oh, btw, you (and anyone else) are officially invited to our Kwanzaa Celebration on The Bosque . Remember, the day after Christmas is "Umoja":

(Unity)
To strive for and maintain unity in the family, community, nation and race.

Habari gani! :D

It's hard to go wrong if you share a few thoughts with me, but you missed a few vital steps.

True, but that doesn't make it a good opinion. One formed from an aggregation of knowledge and ideas that gives you a defensible point.

That's because your idea of rhetoric is a snap and a turbo chicken neck twist.

Then make with discussion instead of evasion.

Maybe in your world ignorance is acceptable. Even the things that I'm unable to understand are brought back out into the light for a second or third study when time permits.

The is nothing, nothing that seperates people other than thought. To perpetuate the idea of "it's a black thing," or "aryan supremecy" is intellectual laziness and a crime against humanity because it is the root of what is wrong in most of the world.

On Kwanzaa...
 

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=5914

Kwanza Komedy
By Kathy Shaidle
Published 12/16/2003 11:10:28 AM

'Twas the night before Kwanzaa
And all through the 'hood,
Maulana Karenga was up to no good.

He'd tortured a woman and spent time in jail.
He needed a new scam that just wouldn't fail.
("So what if I stuck some chick's toe in a vice?
Nobody said revolution was nice!")

The Sixties were over. Now what would he do?
Why, he went back to school -- so that's "Dr." to you!
He once ordered shootouts at UCLA
Now he teaches Black Studies just miles away.

Then to top it all off, the good Doctor's new plan
Was to get rid of Christmas and piss off The Man.

Karenga invented a fake holiday.
He called the thing Kwanza. "Hey, what's that you say?

"You don't get what's 'black' about Maoist baloney?
You say that my festival's totally phony?

"Who cares if corn isn't an African crop?
Who cares if our harvest's a month or two off?
Who cares if Swahili's not our mother tongue?
A lie for The Cause never hurt anyone!

"Umoja! Ujima! Kujichagulia, too!
Collectivist crap never sounded so cool!
Those guilty white liberals -- easy to fool.
Your kids will now celebrate Kwanzaa in school!"

And we heard him exclaim as he drove out of sight:
"Happy Kwanzaa to all, except if you're white!"

Oh so now it's all about whether or not an opinion is "good" or not. (why am I not surprised...)

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good one! I've been known to snap and twist on occasion.

Hm...I thought I was discussing. :confused:

I suppose this is one of your "good opinions"?

Oh god..."crime against humanity"...:haha: Such melodrama.

Ok well, the offer to join the celebration still stands.
:D Good day.

I know a lot of them. Those selfish black people invented so much good stuff they didn't leave hardly anything for anybody else to invent. :p

You're just jealous you didn't think of peanut butter first.

This gentleman is truly impressive ... not because he was Black, but because of what he was able to accomplish despite a lack of formal education.

Drive, initiative, and brilliance bring one to the fore, no matter what.

Not necessarily, IMO. In many cases, certainly. But in some cases, opportunity/luck/fate plays the biggest role of all.

That's because you're about as old as dirt. :)

Who wouldn't be?

There are men (black, white and yellow) that preach to the younger ones that they should hate (fill in) because of things that happened to the older ones. Not warnings or cautions but demanding the young ones hate (fill in) out of duty to their elders rather than going on their own experiences. That just perpetuates hate. :(

Naw, I was thinking of some neat tools. A lot of things they invented were labor saving devices. Gee, now why do you think that was?

To spend more time fantasizing over white women. :)

:lol2: :beer:

Like what?

Like eggbeater, street mailbox, ironing board, street sweeper, pencil sharpener, dust pan, gas mask, fountain pen, golf tee, torpedo, automatic car wash, turn signals, answering machine and traffic lights.

Or how about a microcomputer system with bus control means for peripheral processing devices.
Or finding by separating the liquid red blood cells from the near solid plasma and freezing the two separately, blood could be preserved.
Or how to synthesize physostigmine for treatment of glaucoma and cortisone for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis.
Or how to remove cataract lenses and transform eye surgery, using a laser device making the procedure more accurate.
Or an illusion transmitter which transmits by cable or electromagnetic means a three-dimensional, real-time image.

Then there's fire-extinguishing foam for gasoline and oil fires, polymer foil-electrets for microphones but most important of all BEER KEG TAPS. :)

The street letter drop mailbox with a hinged door that closed to protect the mail was invented by Philip B. Downing. Downing, an African-American inventor, patented his new device on October 27, 1891 (US Patent # 462,096).

African American, Sarah Boone, patented an improvement to the ironing board (U.S. Patent #473,653) on April 26, 1892.

Charles Brooks of Newark, New Jersey invented improvements to street sweeper trucks that he patented on March 17, 1896. His truck had revolving brushes attached to the front fender and the brushes were interchangeable with scrapers that could be used in winter for snow removal. Charles Brook also designed an improved refuse receptacle for storing the collected garbage and litter and a wheel drive for the automatic turning of the brushes and for powering a lifting mechanism for the scrapers. (See patent following page)

At first penknives were used to sharpen pencils. They got their name from the fact that they were first used to shape feather quills used as early pens. In 1828, Bernard Lassimone, a French mathematician applied for a patent (French patent #2444) on an invention to sharpen pencils. However, it was not until 1847 that Therry des Estwaux first invented the manual pencil sharpener, as we know it.

John Lee Love of Fall River, MA designed the "Love Sharpener." Love's invention was the very simple, portable pencil sharpener that many artists use. The pencil is put into the opening of the sharpener and rotated by hand, and the shavings stay inside the sharpener. Love's sharpener was patented on November 23, 1897 (U.S. Patent # 594,114).

African American inventor, Lloyd Ray, patented a new and useful improvement in dust pans. Lloyd Ray invented a device with a metal collection plate attached to a short wooden handle in which trash could be swept into, without getting one's hands dirty.

Garrett Morgan was an inventor and businessman from Cleveland, who invented a device called the Morgan safety hood and smoke protector in 1914. On July 25, 1916, Garrett Morgan made national news for using his gas mask to rescue 32 men trapped during an explosion in an underground tunnel 250 feet beneath Lake Erie. Morgan and a team of volunteers donned the new "gas masks" and went to the rescue. After the rescue, Morgan's company received requests from fire departments around the country who wished to purchase the new masks. The Morgan gas mask was later refined for use by U.S. Army during World War I. In 1914, Garrett Morgan was awarded a patent for a Safety Hood and Smoke Protector. Two years later, a refined model of his early gas mask won a gold medal at the International Exposition of Sanitation and Safety, and another gold medal from the International Association of Fire Chiefs.

Lewis Waterman patented the first practical fountain pen in 1884. Writing instruments designed to carry their own supply of ink had existed in principle for over one hundred years before Waterman's patent. For example, the oldest known fountain pen that has survived today was designed by a Frenchmen named M. Bion and dated 1702. Peregrin Williamson, a Baltimore shoemaker, received the first American patent for a pen in 1809. John Scheffer received a British patent in 1819 for his half quill, half metal pen that he attempted to mass manufacture. John Jacob Parker patented the first self-filling fountain pen in 1831. However, early fountain pen models were plagued by ink spills and other failures that left them impractical and hard to sell.

Garrett Morgan stated in his patent for the traffic signal, "This invention relates to traffic signals, and particularly to those which are adapted to be positioned adjacent the intersection of two or more streets and are manually operable for directing the flow of traffic... In addition, my invention contemplates the provision of a signal which may be readily and cheaply manufactured."

The Morgan traffic signal was a T-shaped pole unit that featured three positions: Stop, Go and an all-directional stop position. This "third position" halted traffic in all directions to allow pedestrians to cross streets more safely.

Garrett Morgan's hand-cranked semaphore traffic management device was in use throughout North America until all manual traffic signals were replaced by the automatic red, yellow and green-light traffic signals currently used around the world. The inventor sold the rights to his traffic signal to the General Electric Corporation for $40,000. Shortly before his death, in 1963, Garrett Morgan was awarded a citation for his traffic signal by the United States Government.

Those were picked from an (much larger) email I received from a black friend of mine that I replied to. The whole (exactly duplicated and frequently wrong or unclear) list is frequently forwarded around the web during february, in addition to being posted in scores of places on the web.

You left a out quite a few other things as well, but more to the point is the fact that it's you and I having this conversation and not the person(s) who started the whole thing.

*golf clap*

Don't strain your arm patting yourself on the back, okay?

That's not a problem. The advantage of of being so intellectually endowed has allowed me to transcend the necessity of such self-congratulatory calisthenics.

There are some people that are intelligent, and some people that are not, but can fool people into believing that they are.

You are neither.

Opinions vary.