You do realize that many of the methods of finding conclusions for sociology and science are the same...

And there is a difference between recognizing something is unfair and getting all uptight about it.

IMO. we need comprehensive immigration reform to move away from our current unfair "quota" system.

The vast majority of immigration visas are currently given to persons with close family (parent/child) that are US citizens, followed by those with highly valued job skills, and then a "diversity" program based on country of origin, with more slots for Europe, followed by Asia, Africa and lastly Central/South America.

If you an unskilled Mexican/Salvadoran with no family here and little education but a commitment to hard work..good luck on getting an immigration visa, other than perhaps a temp visa to be exploited as a migratory and seasonal farm worker.

Sorry but there's far from a consensus in the professional/higher academic world about that. Take a historiography course sometime, it will show you some serious issues with sociology, typically focusing on the actual application of this so called science to the real world (problems with complex systems, etc.). Social theories are nice and all, but application thereof is very problematic and predicting the behavior of micro or macro levels of people groups is wrought with problems and is basically more unreliable than my old '81 VW. Don't get me wrong sociology can be useful but it's like Freud, take what you hear with a grain of salt.

Agreed Bullitt, and the older I get the less I believe it.

My respect for the subject ended when I had 3 semester hours left for my minor. I had a professor who refused to let me pass the course unless I wrote a paper on the minority group I'm a part of or admit I was a racist and write a paper on that. All white people are racist, ya know. of course, he couldn't recognize his own bias because in his world white people have the power so only they can be racist. I still think he's just pissed his proper little japanese sister took up with a white boy.

When did I say anything about application???

I made a single statement and was responded with an ad hominem attacking a straw man created from my argument. I don't get shit from any sociology class and even if I did, that doesn't invalidate my statement. I have already stated that I cannot prove or disprove my statement anyways.

You got all pissed off about semantics? Yes, the definition of racism for many is prejudice plus power because racism is a social doctrine (-ism) and people of color can very rarely force their prejudice onto our society while whites can much easier. Hell, everyone was calling Reverend Wright a racist but in reality, there is nothing he can do to force his prejudice on whites. And also, that definition is a major generalization.

On an indivdidal level, discrimination is the killer. Anyone can discriminate and whites do receive a large part of this. I have been on the short side of it, and so have many other people. Its life, tough shit (not directed at anyone).

On a sociological level, racism is the killer. But unfortunately it is nearly impossible to blame anyone for this since no one person controls it. It would be similar to blaming music videos for displaying sexism or Fox News for giving biased news. These happen because the sexist music videos and biased news sell more. So, blaming any particular person for this phenomena is absolutely pointless. That is what I disagree with most on the current idea of racism. That some people control it and force it down on people for their gain. No, it is something that just happens naturally. For whites to feel guilty about it won't do anything and usually ends up just making the problem worse.


To be honest, I don’t have much respect for sociology either along with many other fields. But, I do believe certain aspects of it are good, while its entirety can be generalized as absurd because there is no way to practically apply it. It is similar to philosophy, interesting and relevant at times, but overall pointless because of lack of applications. That is why I never said anything about application in my statement and admitted that it cannot be proved either way.

If I had a damm nickle for every time I have heard someone tell me that I'd complete with Soros.

Wait, I thought genetics proved there is really no such thing as race. There are certain characteristics in some ethnicities, but no actual race difference, kinda like in different breeds of cats or dogs. There is only the human race.

Well, is it really good for the country to import unskilled, illiterate people? Don't we have too many of those already?

And honestly, since we have lost so many jobs, why would we want to let more people in right now? I am all for opening the borders for more LEGAL immigrants, but not right now. After the recession is over. Right now, we need to look out for the people who are legal citizens/immigrants.

Personally, I don't think there should be ANY borders, ANYWHERE. But that will never happen.

sugar...my point was to the issue of bias (not racism) in the current immigration system (as well as the valued notion of "Give me your tired, your poor,. Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. .").

Take 100 foreigners who will get immigration visas....70 or so (some might be illiterate and/or unskilled) will be eligible solely because of having a close relative here.....20 or so will have highly valued or technical job skills, 5 will have reasons of political persecution...and 5 will get in on the "diversity" lottery, with Europe, Asia and Africa each having more slots then South/Central America.

IMO, this is a biased system.

If it's so unbiased, why is it predicted that by 2050 latinos will be the dominate ethnicity? I remember reading that somewhere. I don't think people should be allowed to come simply because they have relatives here. I think political persecution should top that.

WTF?

Brazil’s leader blames white people for crisis

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ae4957e8-1...0779fd2ac.html

From the link:
Uh, yeh sure. And this guy is the President of Brazil.

I don't think you read that prediction correctly.

Its more like that by 2050, non-Hispanic Whites will no longer be the majority in the US (whites will be under 50% of the pop for the first time).

Its true that Hispanics are the fastest rising ethnicity, but nowhere near a majority by 2050...more like doubling from the current 12% to about 25%.

The Asian population in the US is expected to double during that period as well.

But should that be a basis for immigration?

Yea, damm Northern Europeans!

What about the white people with brown eyes?! Heh, what about them?

No.

oh ok, my bad. :blush: I just knew whites would be in the minority. I could've sworn it said latinos would be the majority. anyway...

No, I wasn't arguing that should be the basis for immigration.

I believe he was arguing the problem started in the United States, with the "good ol' white boys club" in Wall Street, and he would be right.

But that is what he said. I can't know what he meant, or read his mind(it would be in Portuguese anyway), I can only know what he said. And as a blue eyed white person, I take exception to his statement. :eyebrow:

I agree. it was pretty out there.

Why doesn't he just blame the Aryan Race or Nazi Empire?

Well there you have it.

Homeland Security Frees 27 Illegal Immigrants, Sends Them Back to Work

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512098,00.html

Too bad not one American got a job.

:lol:

I am ashamed of all of you - It took Clod of all people, with all she has going on, to catch that. Shame, shame, shame - You are ALL on report. Yes, you too!

:mad:

Oh, that's just racist drivel Bruce.

Yeah right, it isn't like the Mexican Army, or Mexican police, are real world threats to anybody. The cartels told me so.

WTF? grrrrrr :mad:

You're beautiful when you growl, but I'm curious if you're growling at the video or comments?

Didn't watch the video yet. I am growling because they allowed illegals to stay and have jobs when the unemployment rate for LEGAL citizens is so damn high. I mean really. where the fuck are THEIR PRIORITIES? Not with Americans apparently.

This isn't even about the unemployment rate. The issue should start and stop with did they follow the legal process to enter the country? If not, nothing else matters, get out.

The legal process since the 80s (the last major immigration legislation), at least as I understand it, when the feds raid a place of employment, some (most) undocumented workers can continue to work with an employment authorization doc (ead) after the raid and until the case against the employer is adjudicated...in part, I assume, because the testimony of those undocumented workers may be needed.

If that is correct, it might seem outrageous in your opinion (or mine), but if it is the law, then either that legal process should be followed or the law should be amended.

More often than not what they find in the raids is that the illegal immigrants have fake or stolen SSN's and or forged documents. This gives ICE a perfect reason to put them in jail.

And in some cases, it is the employer providing those fake SSNs in which case it may be reasonable for the government to offer something to the "small fry" in order to strengthen the case against the "bigger fish."

I dont necessarily agree with the current policies and procedures....just offering reasons why those employees might be given temporary EADs during the period of time in which the employer is facing criminal prosecution, and after which the employees would be subject to a deportation hearing.

I doubt any employers found guilty of such practices have been allowed to walk. Within the last few months we had a Chinese food establishment in our city send both the husband and wife owners to jail for hiring illegal immigrants, but they had also kept them in slave like conditions.

bump
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Wow. So let me get this right... If you are driving down the road and you look like you may be an immigrant, then these guys can what? Pull you over? frisk you? Whatever they want?

Unbelievable.

DWB just became Driving While Latino

I gotta remember to tell my mother that she's lucky to be getting out of AZ. She's far too dark-skinned to be seen in public. :right:

My dad has been asked for his green card multiple times while on the job. He's white, just tan from working in the sun...oh and he works construction.

New Ad Campaign Asks Latinos Not To Vote For Congress
SOURCE
BOLD MINE
Ouch thats gonna hurt... if it works.

:lol: Latinos for Reform is a Republican front group. They're hoping as many people don't vote as possible.

Sometimes I wonder why any of us bother to vote anymore. If you have the money you can buy your very own congressman, and if you don't have the money, fear not - somebody will buy him, probably a large international corporation like Halliburten.

The voters just play along with this, and no one states the obivious - that the emperor has no clothes.

Call me cynical, but I am just a realist.

Look what are political system has degenerated into - lots of partisan rhetoric combined with political deadlock.

Politicians just play both ends against the middle and add up their offshore bank accounts when no one is around. They couldn't care less about immigration reform because its impact on the wealthy is negligible at best. :eyebrow:

At least you're not bitter. ;)

Just call me Rebecca of Sunnybrook farm. :right:

This is what Alito and Roberts said is good when they also said their Court was not doing judicial activision.

Fortunately I have a remote control. Within the first two second of any political ad, the channel is changed. In part, because I know 40% of the population will believe those ads. It is why my father so enjoyed manipulating people with lies. And said the FTC took the fun out of it when they demanded honesty.

Well, the press is hyping a referendum in CA that would legalize marijuana. However the most important referendum is one that would attack gerrymandering - a major reason why extremists have turned politics so nasty. For example, if you live in Southern IL's 15th Congressional district. Then drive for hours north almost to Chicago. That is also your congressional district. The Republicans are already planning to do same in Indiana where 2010 Census data will require redistricting.

Did you know Crossroads GPS and American Crossroads - two major campaign advertisers - are Karl Rove? Americans for Job Security is the entire Insurance industry promoting only Republican candidates. Americans for Prosperity are the billionaire Koch brothers also promoting only for Republicans.

Or Meg Whitman who spent $120 million (plus more $millions in campaign donations from everyone else) against Jerry Brown who only has $11 million in CA governor race. The Supreme Court said only those who have the most money are permitted to have the most voice. And anybody is allowed to make false accusations - and not have their name attached to those accusations. That is also now legal. With so many extremists in power, nasty is what they want our government to become. And this is only round one. It will get nastier every two years. Those with the most bucks will learn every year how much more lying is legal - especially when those lies can now be promoted without your name attached to it. Alito and Roberts said this is fair and good.

The Economist on 7 Oct noted gerrymandering results in Well things have become so bad that the average German who once drank 142 liters of beer annually is now only drinking 107 liters. Germany is now only the fifth largest beer drinking nation. And still there was a hops shortage last year. Nasty American politics can have world wide consequences.

Univision pulled the ads.

You haven't even begun to see deadlock yet...

He said, as he beat his chest mightily.

I will the first in line to laugh and point after the elections.

You're a parody. I'm already pointing and laughing! :lol:

The whole damm system is dysfunctional. It is broken beyond repair. I don't see it getting better until we have a viable third party.

I am hold up a mirror for you.

DAmn I'm fucking GORGEOUS (flips hair and smiles intoxicatingly.)

:D