I'm not homosexual, never said I was. I don't need to tell my parents' my sexual orientation because I haven't had a significant female partner, I don't plan on telling them unless I do. My parents already support me less for lifestyle choices that they disagree with based on their religious beliefs. I am saying that parents should not pull support from their children because of the child's choice in lifestyle (I.E. homosexuality or different religion.) They can not agree with it, but they should show their child ALL of their love and try to understand. Most parents though are often strong-headed, close minded and believe that they always know best. That is not true, parents do not always know best. Since they choose not to even try to understand the child's particular peculiarities, they instead pull support, or give less.

I don't think you did or you would know that: yes I did ask, and get approval in MARCH with my parents to move back. My brother asked in OCTOBER.
I specifically said it in post 107: "My parents have now let him move back twice w/o any conditions. I was supposed to move back (finalized it in mar with them), and instead they let him come back(in Oct he decided to get a car instead a of a house loan), therefore I can't."

What wasn't defined? Types of support? Because, yes, I have had explained it several times, and give several examples. I have also stated a few examples of both my sister and brother getting benefits I didn't. Here is another one if you want: My parent's have always fully supported my sister in her college endeavors(not financially, they don't have the money to do that, but they fully encourage her), when they tell me its a waste for me to go. My sister only graduated High School 6seats higher than I did, so its not that I show a lack of academic acuity. Sister didn't decide what she was goin to college for until 2nd semester senior year. I knew what I wanted to go for up until 2nd semester senior year, their lack of encouragement probably contributed to my change of mind. Turns out, no matter what else I choode, they only have negative things to say about that as well.

Like I said Money doesn't equal love. I'm saying that when I NEED financial support, I don't get it, whereas my siblings do. I have done nothing worse than my older brother (I will say I don't mind my sister getting more, she is a saint) and yet he gets more. I have stated non-financial reasons, like them not letting me move back home. Yes its to save me money, but it wouldn't cost them (I have already said I'm paying rent). Them not supporting my want to go to college is another non-financial example I've cited. The financial reasons are just the more tangible and therefore easier to explain. Most of my issues with my parents is lack of financial because they don't believe I deserve it, which to me shows a lack of emotional support.

No, that I never said they were/weren't doing any of those things. Those were just examples. You read into the wrong things classic.

Sorry Jinx - I think it completely depends upon the situation, the people involved and the circumstances. More often than not as an adult, I would invariably choose the honest approach.

How about you?

I think you should practice before you preach. Especially about honesty.

AMEN!!!

ok - sorry MTP, I guess I just don't get it. I'm sorry that your parents are being assholes. Parents tend to do that from time to time. Its just in my experience, they are typically trying to do it for a reason or reasons unknown or not understood by the child. I guess yours are just treating you differently for some unknown reason.

FWIW, My oldest brother is the golden child - he can do no wrong. I know that he is my fathers favorite and he treats him differently than he treats the rest of us, especially me. That has no bearing on the fact that my father still loves me. I was the youngest and mostly all the money for college was gone when it was my turn. I had to pay for it myself.

Sorry about your situation. Hope things improve for all of you.

Shouldn't we all.

Total and utter bull shit.

Key here. Pay attention.

Absolutely. Which is why if you don't get any from your parents does not mean they love you less, regardless of you choices in life, gay, straight, or whatever....

I don't understand this statement.

Why are you talking about money again Merc? She didn't say the problem was her parents not giving her money. Finance is just one of the many areas in which a parent can assist their child.

I've seen the golden child phenomenon in at least two other families.
The one I know the best is where the eldest was a daughter, carried to term after a number of previous miscarriages. After only another year and no miscarriages - another girl. Then eight more years of trying, failed IVF then succesful IVF and many complications and the last couple of weeks in hospital, twin boys born prematurely.

The older girl got everything she wanted.
Luckily for her parents she was a hard worker, not academic but beautiful, which is often easier for a girl.
She was her Daddy's angel, and although very good natured she did know how to manipulate him.
She got a job working for her father and although he cut her no slack (he was very professional) she got a company car, a salary nearly 50% above the going rate for that position and when she moved out of home the company (builders and fitters) did all the work on her house and only charged for materials, allowing her to buy a bad quality house with a significantly low mortgage.

The twin sons decided to go to University. Their fees were fully covered by their parents so they would not come out of Uni in debt. Their parents bought houses in each of the separate University towns because they viewed it as an investment (it was - the father knew the building trade well). They saw it as an issue of trust that the boys would manage the house and charge rent in order to cover household bills and living expenses. Of course they were still paid an allowance because it helped keep them focussed on their study. They were their Mother's Miracle Babies and she was so proud of them.

And the second daughter? My friend. She lived at home and went to the local Uni because her parents were worried she would run up debts if she moved away. Her Dad went with her to buy her first car (second hand from a private seller) but did no more to advise her - she bought it with savings she'd accrued working after school and through college.

She continued to work in a large supermarket to pay for her own socialising - okay her parents didn't charge her rent or a share of the bills, but neither did they ask her older sister for a contribution and she was working full time.

She had always shown herself to be financially reponsible, sensible, acedemic and hard working. I honestly believe that she slipped under their radar. They hadn't had to think about Uni with the eldest daughter - she barely made it out of High School. SO I know they were learning on the job as it were. They had 8 years of friends' experiences with their children and debts and dropping out to draw on by the time the boys went.

But deliberate or not, it seems sad that someone I knew as forceful, intelligent and an all round sparkling person because someone less when she walked in to the family home. I know - I lived there for a while. I saw the walls filled with photos of the beautiful one, with sports trophies of the boys. She had no resentment of the way her siblings were treated, but sometimes - just somethimes - when we were drunk and maudlin, she would wonder why they never did any of that for her, or asked her what she wanted, or said how proud they were at what she had achieved.

Anyway, they you go.
No-one can force a parent to treat children equally, to love them the same or even give them the same support and attention. But to me that's part of what trying to be a good parent is. I've been such a trial to mine and they still take me back in. Mum's admitted I've been the hardest to love just because I'm so much trouble, but I know she does, really.

From what I could see of Mercs last few posts, he agreed with MTP about money.

Hey Jinx, did you miss the question or...?

No, I think I answered it.
You see, I was having a hard time reconciling you lying to your boss an/or girlfriend about something as silly as posting on the cellar, hiding it from them by changing your name and having posts removed - and then preaching to MTP about being an adult, being honest, not hiding things etc...
In the grand scheme of things I couldn't give a flying fuck really, I was just momentarily shocked by what I perceive as a lack of integrity. Thus the practice before you preach comment...
Unless you meant something else by "how about you"?

I spoke with MTP at some length the other night about her position vis a vis parental responsibility. By the end of that conversation, I realized that I need to simply butt the hell out of that situation in her life. Her steadfastness in her position, and my core beliefs, are utterly and irreconcilably incompatible, and further conversation was going to result in one of us really disliking the other.

I hate it when that happens.

Yes, what I meant was how would you handle her situation?

Sorry to hear that Spode. You are one of the many people I really look up to in the Cellar, and believe have a great life ethic.

Eh. I understand and respect her opinion and position on the issue. I just think that those of us who are parents look at this issue differently. And that is not to say that everyone who is a parent agrees with me, only that the point of view differs from those who can only guess what it is like.

I've been thinking about this a lot over the last couple of weeks with regard to what responsibility a parent has to a child after it becomes an adult.

I tried to think back to when I first left school and got myself a full time job. I know that it was at that point that my parents stopped paying for things for me, although they did drop me to the train station etc because we were quite a way away from it. That was until I could get my car running, which my dad helped me with. During this time I had to pay board. Then I moved out of home, at which point my parents still continued to love me and care about what i was doing, but it was the final separation. They didn't approve of the choice I'd made, and it hurt them badly (there was a man involved) but they still supported me emotionally after the initial pain and hurt had settled on both sides.

When the relationship fell apart, I moved back to my mum's house and stayed there for a couple of years. My brother was still living there, and Mum was very glad I'd come home, but I was living there more as a housemate than a child. I paid my share of the bills and bought food etc and just generally lived there as a share house situation. I would not have dreamed of allowing my Mum to support me at that stage.

I moved out again after meeting the father of my two sons and lived with him for about 5 years. Had the kids and then the relationship turned to crap. I left him and lived somewhere else for a while and went into business with my Dad. We did that for a couple of years till I went back to Uni. By this time Mum was getting a bit frail. She'd already had one major cancer episode, and she asked if I'd move back and help her with the house and in return she'd help with the kids while I was studying.

At no time was she supporting me in any way other than emotionally. I was always quite conscious of keeping the finances completely separate and it worked out really well for us.

I would like to think that my kids would always know they could return to their home if they needed to, or if it seemed like the logical thing for all of us, but I'd also like to think that they'd have learned that I wouldn't appreciate freeloading. I've worked hard all my life to do the right thing by the people that love me and I've always shown my parents the respect they deserved. I hope that when my kids are older and they realise how I've struggled for them at times, they'll appreciate me enough to show me the same respect.

In the end, i think that's what it comes down to for me. Most parents will put up with just about anything from their kids, as long as the kids are respectful about what they expect and that they're honest about what's going on in their lives.

Of course there are some parents who don't fit this catagory and I guess that's pretty sad, but communication is the key.

Sounds abusive. The cellar may be wrong on this one. This sounds like the patriarchs are getting the upper hand on a young girl. Sorry. Nuh uh.


The day I quit listening to my parents was the best of my life. Parents can be wrong. Dead wrong.

I am in total agreement Cicero. As soon as I read that post my hackles went up.


As for parental responsibility: I don't think anybody here is arguing that parents have a financial responsibility to adult children. That said, my mum and Dad have at times stepped in and helped out when I've been broke. Between my mum, myself and my brother (and even J, who has remained to all intents and purposes a member of the family despite our having split long ago and him now having another partner) there is a shared sense of responsibility. None of us have much more than we need for the lives we're leading. We don't have large amounts of money saved, we don't have high wages. My bro and his wife are doing ok, he is self-employed, she's a nurse; mum's on a pension and works intermittently with asylum seekers and refugees. J, like me, is a full-time student with part time earnings alongside.

We all help each other out when needed. There was a spell of about a year where I was just perma-broke, really struggling; between them mum, J and my Bro got me through that. This year I've had an easier time of it (marginally:P) and have been able to return the favour somewhat.

When J and I split and I needed somewhere to go, there was no question but that I'd stay at mum's til I got a place sorted. In typical fashion, the first place I went when i walked out of the door was mum's. It always is. To me, that is what families are.

I was thinking about this thread in relation to going to church.
I know it would make my parents very happy.
I am trying to be a "good daughter" and just feeling round the edges of what that means at the moment.

I can't change myself into my sister, I won't marry the the man I meet who is prepared to take me on and squeeze out a couple of children so that I fit the "normal" daughter template [ETA - my sister didn't do this either!]. My parents would not want me to - they'd be happy if I was happy and although they would prefer a conventional life for me, they would never want me to pretend.

BUT
Along with other, more practical things I can sort out and will sort out, I know it would make them happy if I went to church. Of course the trouble is, I am an atheist. I really, really don't believe it - any of it. So that would make me a massive hypocrite, yes?

But then I think - well, as long as I don't do anything more than attend - and I certainly wouldn't take coommunion - then I'm just doing something for them. They don't really understand that I don't believe. They have never argued with me (or my brother) about not following the faith, because deep down they are sure they are right and we are communing with God in our own way, and will follow our own paths to him (pretty laid back for Catholics actually).

I think I will try Christmas Day and see how much of a worm it makes me feel.

If you go on Christmas at least you get to sing some nice songs.:rolleyes:

Midnight Mass is very popular here on Christmas...mainly because it's stinking hot in just about any church during the day here at that time of year...especially when the churches are filled with good time christians. lol

Nice post. I hope I can remain that supportive.

I agree. I think your parents home should always be a last resort refuge if you are really in trouble and they should be there for you. But their role should be helping you get back on your feet and out on your own again. I have a brother who freeloaded on my parents for years til they finally told him to leave. I hope I never have to deal with that issue.

No, it wouldn't. I go to church with my in-laws, and they know I am an atheist. I go in respect of their beliefs, in family solidarity, and to be polite. Frankly, I'd feel like a worm if I didn't go! Give it a try -- you may end up feeling virtuous to have made your parents feel good.

Of course, YMMV.

This is a tricky issue. I don't believe in the Christian God, and am opposed to most organised churches as power organisations. Yet when my brother asked me to be a godfather to his daughter, I agreed, went to the church, and went through with the ceremony (and was discretely delighted when the baby screamed through the baptism).
It seemed a bit hypocritical to do this, but it seemed very petty and anal to refuse.

What role are you upholding as the Godfather? It seems very odd to me that you would be chosen to have that responsibility based upon your beliefs, or lack thereof.

We've asked my brother and his wife to be Godparents to our baby. None of us go to church, but the baby will be baptised anyway.

It's about the tradition for me. It's about Dazza's mother for him.

I'm pretty sure you'll be able to manage it. :)

I agree that it doesn't make you a hypocrite. My grandpa was a Methodist pastor, my aunt is a Methodist pastor, so I do have a pretty heavy religious influence in my family and I don't want to spend the once a year get together to revolve on my refusal to go to church for an hour and a half.

Its about respect for my family and not wanting to cause pointless drama. Not anything about religion itself.

The only serious point is to act as a back-up parent in case of the deaths of both of the natural parents. Of course there are also b-day and x-mas pressies and such like, but she'd get that anyway being my niece. They certainly wouldn't be expecting me to give her any religious instruction! There is also something about puppets and violin cases but that comes later, I'm told.

Now They Want to Overturn the Ones That Were Legal
 

This is complete bullshit. And note that famous witch hunter Ken Starr is the mouthpiece.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081220/...age_lawsuits_1

Why do they want to hurt the homosexuals? What benefits can the anti-gays really get from this? Are they just that big of bigots, that despite a lack of tangible benefits, they have to keep hurting others?