IIRC, Smooth is a college teacher.

So am I (admittedly, in a different country).

I second his opinion.

A significant proportion of these kids don't have a bloody clue. Many more are totally apathetic. Those that are into politics are excitedly gobbling up whatever party line they first got a taste for. A very small number are actually intelligent, informed, and thoughtful.

That's true Zen, but on the other hand (the one I think classic was getting at) is there are a hell of a lot of people out there who don't even have any basic intelligence or information on which to base their vote. I've been astounded at the statements some of the people I know have made about politicians and politics, and interestingly, the ones who make the most astounding statements are the ones with the least education.

I'm not saying this is the case for all, but I'd lay money on better educated people making more informed decisions...whether they've been informed with good or bad information is beside the point.

*Blinks*

Have you any idea how many returning soldiers are living rough, on the streets of America's cities? One estimate I heard recently said about 150,000. Are you aware that entire families are sometimes homeless, with mum and the youngest living in lodgings and dad and older brother in whatever shelter they can find? How many of the homeless are just people who've somehow disappeared off the radar, slipped through the cracks and become non-people?

So there's a higher proportion of the homeless population suffering various forms of mental illness and drug/alcohol dependency than amongst the housed...at what point does mental illness render you unfit to vote? Depression? Suicidal tendencies? Taking nicks out of your arm with a razor blade of a nighttime? Bad dreams and panic attacks? None of these are reserved for those without a roof.

You seem morally appalled that these people might be swayed for the price of a hot meal; yet the Republican candidate stands in a town hall and says "I'll give you a $5,000 dollar, refundable tax credit..."


*shakes head* I'm going to step out of this discussion I think, before I fall out with people unnecessarily.

Wow.
Sounds like adhereance to the Constitution, with all its byzantine twists and turns about God in schools and freedom of the press etc doesn't really apply when it comes to universal sufferage. Then again, the Declaration of Independence was written by slave owners, so I suppose it's not really worth the paper it's written on.

classicman, I'm at a loss for words.

Actually, I think Dana and Sundae cover it best.

1) I am NOT trying to stop anyone from voting - I really think you are all missing what I am trying to say. Everyone should has the right to vote EVERY-FUCKING-ONE. (except felons and such)
That part clear? I hope so.

2) Everyone should vote EVERY-FUCKING-ONE.

What I do not think is right nor fair or just is people and/or organizations with political agendas, funded by MY TAX DOLLARS, going out onto the street and registering any & everyone they can find, dig up or wake up just to support their political views and to skew election results. No I do not believe in that - that is all.

Classic...organizations like Acorn offer assistance to people who wouldn't ordinarily be able to perform the task themselves. Your reaction to this seems to be a direct result of the skewed reporting on Acorns true function. Try reading some articles that actually show a more favorable light on Acorn and see what you think.

I am not morally appalled at them at all. PLEASE do not put words in my mouth. The simple fact that their vote WILL be swayed as YOU put it is another reason these organizations should not use our tax dollars for their political agendas, whether I agree with them or not.

I am NOT attacking the people nor their fortunes or lack thereof in life.

I've read plenty, thanks. I simply disagree with these organizations using my tax dollars to propagate their agenda. There should be a more unbiased nonpartisan way.

SG - Please do NOT bring race into this, in fact you are completely wrong about what I am saying and what I believe.

How is this any different? You folks are unreal.

I apologise if it appeared the comment about blacks was aimed at you. I was in fact referring to the fact that the Founding Fathers owned slaves.

No prob - Pigpile is a fun game to play ... except when you are the wabbit.

Higher than that! Not just returning soldiers but vets of all wars. It's appalling, but these guys have the same mental illness and/or substance abuse rates that most homeless suffer from.

It could be that historically, otherwise unemployable people went into the military, though that's not as true as it once was.

I'll agree with that.

When you start limiting voting rights because you don't think someone "knows enough" you are using subjective criteria which goes completely against the principles this country was supposed to be founded upon.

Who makes that call?

Seriously disturbing. I find that this concept makes me more frightened even than I am apparently supposed to be at the word "socialist" which has been tossed around like some political hacky sack. :cool:

I thought that's why women weren't allowed to vote until recently.

Well, we need to discriminate against the right people. Women can't be trusted, you know how emotional they are: kind of throws informed voting out the window. :rolleyes:

Pico - Regarding skewed reporting - a link from another thread from UT.

So what are you saying Classic.

And black people because they aren't even human. They are dumb anyway, according the test statistics up my ass. No blacks, no women, and screw the irish too just for the hell of it. I have heard they are drunks, and may not vote the way I want them too.

Oh hai..I don't even know what you guys are talking about. lol! Carry on.

I must be speaking a new language that only I understand thats what I'm thinkin at this point.
What I'm saying isn't fit to post. :: Biting tongue::

:rolleyes:

I really need you to clarify yourself a bit better than that. I am not going to guess at the connections you are making. Please spell them out.

Hey, now I really don't know what you guys are talking about. For real this time.

:)

Nevermind - Its just not worth it - I reread my earlier post 4 or 5 times now and that is crystal clear to me.

You forgot to mention the animal towel heads. Come on. Really. What about them?

I knew that this morning. ClassicFAILman

McCain Backer Attacked, Mutilated in Pittsburgh

Posted Oct 23rd 2008 4:27PM by TMZ Staff

McCainHere's what went down with the McCain/Palin supporter who was allegedly attacked in Pennsylvania last night.

According to Pittsburgh cops, around 9:30 PM last night, a female was robbed after she went to the ATM. The victim says during the robbery, the assailant saw the McCain/Palin sticker on her car and became "enraged." He struck her and knocked her down, and allegedly carved a "B" on her cheek.

The assailant is still at large. Police tell us all they have is a description -- a man, 6'4", with dark skin and dark clothes.

A McCain spokesman confirmed to TMZ the victim volunteered in McCain's Pennsylvania office.

Story developing ...

Is Barry getting nervous enough to start attacking people himself?

I guess we can assume that particular crazy person has already cast their vote, then?

Crazy person, as in the young lady who made this story up? ;)

Not a rumor, per se. The chick came out and said she made it up. Now I want to know, did she beat the living crap out of herself. or ask a friend to do it?

It worked though. Did you see the McCaininites jump up and down and point? :lol:

Each side believes the worst of the other. In this case, the Democrats now have one more more piece of ammunition in their belief that the Republicans are evil.

Who? The "demoncrats"?

the same

I think it just shows that not ALL the crazies are democats!

Josie and the Democats.

lol @ Cic - I've seen about 20 Yard signs for McCain with spray paint on them. I've seen piles of Obama yard signs in the trash at the Wawa. Same shit different year. WTFE I'm ready for 2009.

I'll give you that and raise you another Palin rumor that was BS. :D

Not sure which one you are talking about, but there have been a few of them, so I'll give you that too.

Here is an interesting site. Along the lines of snopes and they even address a recent internet posting about snopes.com about halfway down. Interesting.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/

Did someone manipsnate her and her family???

And did they manipsinate her to discredit Obama or McCain? *knowing look*

Palin put a hex on the Philadelphia Flyers. ;)

Palin put the evil eye on a farm in Uruguay.

And that baseball team from Fl. :D

And Oklahoma when they played Texas.

And Kyle Bush when he lost his engine before the race.

And on that bridge in Mn. right before it fell in the river.

God the list is just too long.... ;)

Notice to All Employees

As of November 5, 2008, when the next President is officially elected into office, our company will instill a few new policies which are in keeping with his new, inspiring issues of change and fairness:

1. All salespeople will be pooling their sales and bonuses into a common pool that will be divided equally between all of you. This will serve to give those of you who are underachieving a “fair shake.”

2. All low level workers will be pooling their wages, including overtime, into a common pool, dividing it equally amongst yourselves. This will help those who are “too busy for overtime” to reap the rewards from those who have more spare time and can work extra hours.

3. All top management will now be referred to as “the government.” We will not participate in this “pooling” experience because the law doesn't apply to us.

4. The “government” will give eloquent speeches to all employees every week, encouraging it's workers to continue to work hard “for the good of all.”

5. The employees will be thrilled with these new policies because it's “good to spread the wealth". Those of you who have underachieved will finally get an opportunity; those of you who have worked hard and had success will feel more “patriotic.”

6. The last few people who were hired should clean out their desks. Don't feel bad, though, because our new President will give you free healthcare, free handouts, free oil for heating your home, free food stamps, and he'll let you stay in your home for as long as you want even if you can't pay your mortgage. If you appeal directly to our democratic congress, you might even get a free flatscreen TV and a coupon for free haircuts (shouldn't all Americans be entitled to nice looking hair?)

If for any reason you are not happy with the new policies, feel free to appeal this to the senate or congress, not that it'll do you any good.

One question sir? Is this for the greater good, or for the good of the whole? :)

#6 Sounds awesome. I can't find a f'ing job. Showing up to clean out my desk will be the most fun I've had all week.

Hey I just got the email and posted it here for you - yes Cic you specifically! Cuz as we know the world does revolve around you and your awesomeness :)

Well there you go.
I expect Cicero never to work again, as apparently she will be better off than any of you if she doesn't.

Cicero, do try to get up before 18.00 GMT though, so I still have the occasional distraction at work. Because despite living in a country to the left of Obama's views, I still feel the need to work and earn a living. Still, that's the Brit mentality, it's only lazy Americans who would quit if they thought there was a safety net.

Hmm...You sound like you don't mean that classic. :)

I'm sorry I took any interest in reading your post, however. Nice work. You are headed straight for management, sounds like.

No I was kidding - I really was. :( sorry if I offended

:jig:

As a legitimate question, what measures are in place in the UK to prevent abuse of the system? We absolutely have a problem with it here. Is it that you have fewer abusers, or you're more willing to accept that there will always be abusers?

There are people that abuse the system. Of course there are, it's human nature.

The difference is more in attitude. It has come up before and it will come up again. Social Security is just that. The majority of people pay into it. The majority of people will only benefit when they need it.

Scroungers, loafers and good-for-nothings will dance to an elaborate tune to get what they want, but most people would prefer to work and only fall back on the system when they need to.

Now don't get me wrong, the right wing in this country resent it too. The Hate Mail has stories at least once a week about someone supposedly living off the fat of the land. To counter that, Channel 4 make documentaries about how miserable it is to be stuck on benefits.

The bottom line is the safety net is accepted in this country. And the general consensus is that we'd rather stop people falling through the cracks even if it means we have to put up with the occasional family of 13 with neither parent working (but at least they're still married!) Most people here don't believe benefits create scroungers (most people here receive at least something you don't get in America).

ETA I'm sure you know my comment about lazy Americans was in the spirit of the original post. But just to clarify.

Oh yes, I thought the lazy Americans comment was quite funny. :) I wish there were a good way to quantify abusers of the system, to discover if you have a different number than we do. It's interesting that your stereotypical image of the abuser is "the occasional family of 13 with neither parent working (but at least they're still married!)" Ours would be more like the woman with 5 kids, all by different fathers, and neither she nor any of the fathers are working.

I meant the cases reported by the Mail.
Although if you want real vitriol it's always aimed at asylum seekers, who get to stay in hotels free of charge. Yeah, I'd like to see a journalist exist a week in one of those places.

lol! Yes, I plan to sit on my lazy American ass forever. Hell, maybe I'll have a kid to get some welfare money. Because that's what people know me for. Doing absolutely nothing. No motivation whatsoever, I'm not one of those practical, pull myself up by my bootstraps people. I just sit on my lazy ass and wait for the government to figure it out for me. I don't know when the last time it was that I actually broke a sweat doing work. Hell maybe I'll get a job and injure myself at work and get to quit, with some cash in my pockets. Typical lazy American over here! Now accepting handouts! :D Maybe I'll come up with a mental illness to get some benefits. I feel schizophrenic just now, because I must be out of my mind if I think I just read that right.:D heh.

All of the above applies to the vast majority of Americans too. Our problem is that we are so much larger than you and the amount of abuse and $$$$$$ are as well. numbers wise, I don't know about percentages. For that you need a bean counter.