I don't really think so. There is no way they can pay for all the promises they have made, esp if Obama is elected. Our society is about to take it in the shorts economically in the name of fixing all that needs to be fixed. I am not a fan of wealth redistribution, taxes, and the government telling me what I can and cannot do (with reasonalble exceptions).

Nobody wants to pay for the things they don't believe in. For me, it's the Iraq war.

So we shouldn't even attempt to fix some of the problems?
And guess what, we're already taking it in the shorts on the micro-economic scale. The macro is just starting to catch up.

Can't be, DanaC. They are brothers under the skin, never been anything else, and every Fascist leader that ever was spent time as a Socialist. Read von Kühnelt-Leddihn and see if you can still hold that view.

you love her

Actually, we in America are royally screwed no matter which of the 3 clones wins.

I am beginning to believe that.

Don't worry, Obama will act like he loves us for 20 years, then when we embarrass him a couple times he'll drop us like so much used kleenex. It's called "conviction fence-sitting."

:lol:

They stole your wallet too?

Thanks Monkey. This is all any reasonable person needs to prove that McCain is insane and he belongs nowhere near the whitehouse or in any other part of government. America was most certainly not founded on Judeo-Christian ethics, principles, or doctrine.

Sure we should. Who is going to pay for it and how?

Considering that Bush is intending to pay for 100 plus years of occupation in Iraq, let's say we cut that and spend it on things we need.

Not an answer. Show me the money.:headshake

First we have to pay for what we have on credit. You understand that, sort of like a credit card. Ok? Then after we pay for that how do we pay for all the social programs?

I know! we use the liberal left idea and tax corps and people who make money!

So what do we do when Exxon or other big corps say fuck it, see ya! wouldn't want to be ya! We will just set up shop in the Gulf of Oman and fuck you we are moving next week! Then what?

People who have money say fuck you I will just find better ways to legally shelter mine and give less to charity (people like me), or pay myself, hire all of my kids and my wife (legally) and you get shit!

COOL! then what?

That's the part that frustrates me when talking listening to people talking about taxing "the rich". They don't get it. They tax increases really only affect their neighbors. People they see on a daily basis, people who dwell in the cellar, people who work hard for a living... people who don't pay attorneys and accountants tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars annually to take care of the issue. For every rich tax and redistribute plan created there is a new trust or entity created to beat that tax for the truly wealthy. The truly wealthy pay an astronomical sum in terms of dollars, but little in actual percentage because they have attorneys to take care of that. Bill down the street who busted his ass to build a successful small business and has finally cracked into six figures is the one who gets screwed so someone can feel good about taxing the rich.

"The Rich" includes anyone who makes more than me. Screw em.

I think "the rich" describes those who make more than $500,000 per year and "the wealthy" describes those who make more than 50 million per year. I loved it when Chris Rock described the difference between the rich and the wealthy. He said if Bill Gates woke up with Oprah Winfrey's money, he'd jump out the window of a tall skyscraper and slash his own throat on the way down.

What if they only make that amount one year? two?

Here here....

They could be wealthy now and rich later, or rich now and middle-class later. During the one or two years they are making that kind of money, they are rich or wealthy as the case may be. When they stop making that kind of money, they no longer qualify.

I'm pretty sure median income (per household) in the US hovers just under $50000/year. Anyone making six figures is fairly rich.

bullshit. $100,000 does NOT make one rich or even "fairly rich". It makes them someone who probably busts there ass to provide for their family just like you do. They've just chosen a field that pays better.

Anyone who makes more than twice what I make is rich. The exact dollar amount will change as my income changes.

Edit: I forgot this: ;)

fair enough. as long as i get to use the same measurement. ;)


seriously though, that is the problem with picking dollar amounts and attaching tags to them. it is completely subjective. When I was in the military the idea of making what a colonel does made my mouth water. Now I'd be scrambling trying to figure out how to stay afloat. Is someone earning a colonel's wage rich or poor? It all depends on where you are standing.

Well, I know from Mr. Carlin that anyone who drives slower than me is an idiot, but anyone who goes faster than me is a maniac.

Agreed. We don't make six figures, but if we did, we certainly wouldn't be swimming a la scrooge mcduck. We would probably get caught up on some of our bills, though.

UMMMMMMMmmmmmmm.....

Fucking A.

On the same note, so people who make early and calculated decisions about life goals and plans and then see them through to positive results should be penalized because we busted our asses and went to 3 or 4 or 10 years of school after a 4 year college degree should be paying for those who did not?

Yea, "Kiss my ass" floats to the top of that line of thinking rather quickly.

Bull shit.

Please to share what you have done to earn your $50000 a year.

And then explain to us why the rest of the world who makes more than you should pay for your happy ass to do anything? "I am all ears."

No, what they have is more disposable income than you and more likely than not, more bills, a higher standard of living, and the ability to have more choices in life. But yea, they are not rich.

Reminds me of a tree full of monkeys

Everyone at the top looks down at nothing but smiling faces of other monkeys.

Everyone at the bottom looks up and sees nothing but a bunch of assholes.

Sucks to be on the bottom. You get nothing but shit from the top. But hey, no one says you can't sacrifice, bite, scrape, and jockey for a better position in the tree. The only thing holding you back is yourself.

Rock on monkey.

Median household income was $46,326 in 2005, up 1.1 percent from 2004 after adjusting for inflation. This is the first annual increase in real median household income since 1999. Since 1967, the first year for which household income statistics are available, real median household income was up 30.9 percent

During the 2004 election, the line in the sand that Kerry had drawn for his tax-the-rich plan was $250,000 a year. Though obviously the taxation plan itself met with much criticism, the public seemed to swallow the actual number as a reasonable definition of rich at the time.

that's because the public swallows the political hacks' strategy of class warfare hook, line, and sinker. show me the person who thinks anyone making $100/200/300K per year deserves to be taxed more and I'll show you someone who doesn't have the belief that they could ever earn that much. Or someone so disgustingly wealthy that they pay someone hundreds of thousands to ensure they don't pay taxes anyway...

$500k in Los Angeles is like $150k anywhere else in America...with the possible exception of New York City.

I assure you even 300k is far from disgustingly wealthy.

Lets talk weath. I am starting a new thread in current events. I would appreciate it if you all came over and commented in an effort to refocus the discussion and take advantage of an interesting bit of thread drift.

To you, 30 billion euros is not disgustingly wealthy.

And you would know this how? I accept that our society is economically stratified. It can't be anything else, it does not matter how little you make.

I'm just tired of the rich pleading poverty, especially CEOs who gets raises while their companies go to the toilet and employees lose everything they worked for. Even Mike Bloomberg made over $11 billion while in office, taking a $1 per year job. Eleven billion. At least he didn't take NYC to the toilet.

How much should someone running one of the largest cities in the world make? Also what were his sources of income to produce the $11B?

His trust. He is up from 5 billion to 11.5 billion (my mistake, sorry.)

He owns Bloomberg, LP, now in trust. You see the Wall Street ticker on CNBC and other financial channels? That's thanks to Bloomberg.

Goldman Sachs and just about every other brokerage house on Wall Street got an electronic ticker, thanks to Bloomberg.

I'm not certain yet whether his reach extends to Fleet Street or other European, or Asian markets.

Did his job as mayor have anything illicit impact on that trust? I am not a Bloomberg fan, but so what if his personal wealth grew from $5B to $10B or even $100B? If he only accepted $1 in wages then you should be applauding that choice to not take unneeded taxpayer money.

If that is the case why would you say this to me?

I am no CEO. Sure I make good money by most standards but I am far from rich.

Well, he is an MBA... must be evil. ;)