Arent you the one that halfway proved that the 'undocumented immigrants' dont pay taxes, because you dont pay taxes (or at least know how to very easily dodge them) cause you dont believe that taxes are legal?

I say the quickest way to get rid of the social programs is to make everyone scared the immigrants are out to get 'em. Open the floodgates, and if people start to feel the pinch, they'll end the programs.



I don't recall that you and I have had any conversations. I've presented proof many times over in threads.

Here's a link to one of the many articles I've linked to in the past...

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/200...contribute.php

No, I'm the one who showed that undocumented immigrants pay plenty of taxes even if they don't pay income taxes. Though the ones who borrow a social security number get regular jobs and income taxes are taken out of that paycheck including social security which they NEVER collect from.

OK, I'm just a little bit troubled by anyone saying taxing isn't fair in a society.

How can the government build roads and basic infrastructure etc if the community doesn't contribute?

Prove it with objective facts.

Most do not "borrow a social security number". Most work under the table for cash.

If the estimated net fiscal drain of $2,736 a year that each illegal household imposes on the federal treasury is multiplied by the nearly three million illegal households, the total cost comes to $10.4 billion a year. Whether one considers this to be a large sum or not is, of course, a matter of perspective. But, this figure is unambiguously negative and certainly not trivial. It is also worth remembering that these figures are only for the federal government and do not include any costs at the state or local level, where the impact is likely to be significant.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalfindings.html

What you state is opinion, not fact. I can tell you that the fact is that the arrest and detention powers of the illegal aliens entering the US illegally are real and legitimate. There is no whole scale release of these illegal immigrants based on legal appeal by contesting law you interpret it. If there is please provide objective facts which document these events.

Attempting to attack an argument based on accusations of "racism or xenophobia" is a straw man approach.

At least our state is trying to reign in these illegal immigrants, starting 1 Jan, 2008:

In addition, the GSICA forbids the state from contracting with employers who do not verify the immigration status of new employees. Section 2 of the GSICA requires an employer to verify the immigration status of new employees through a federal work authorization program that is operated by the United States Department of Homeland Security. The verification requirements will apply to contractors and subcontractors with 500 or more employees on July 1, 2007, to contractors or subcontractors with 100 or more workers on July 1, 2008; and, after July 1, 2009, all government contractors and subcontractors will be subject to the new laws. While Section 2 does not contain any provisions related to enforcement, it does require the Commissioner of Labor to promulgate the rules and regulations necessary to enforce the law and to publish them on the Georgia Department of Labor's Web site.

While the GSICA will certainly affect Georgia businesses, one must also be cognizant of existing federal laws, which also address the hiring of illegal immigrants. For example, pursuant to 8 U.S.C.A. ? 1324a, one who knowingly hires illegal immigrants may be subject to civil penalties ranging from $200 to $10,000 and criminal penalties that could include imprisonment.

Although the GSICA has been described by some as a "tough immigration law," the overall purpose behind the GSICA is to strike a balance between welcoming individuals that seek to legally live and work in Georgia, while protecting the rights of United States citizens. Either way, it is important for Georgia employers that have become increasingly dependant on immigrant or migrant labor to determine how the new laws will affect their businesses.

http://www.wikigwinnett.com/content....TOKEN=48059084

http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=420155&postcount=16

Heh, yea, sure this guy and his illegal mates have contributed enough to make up for the loss.

Number of Illegal Aliens in the Country: 21,013,427.
Money Wired to Mexico City since January 2006: $34,648,085,563.
Cost of Social Security Services for Illegal Aliens since 1996: $397,465,864,322.
Number of Children of Illegal Aliens in Public Schools: 4.071,971.
Cost of Illegal Aliens Incarcerated since 2001: $1,437,741,781.
Number of Illegal Aliens Incarcerated: 341,854.
Number of Illegal Alien Fugitives: 653,088.
Skilled Jobs Taken by Illegal Aliens: 10,052,905.
Anchor babies since 2002: 2,045,584.

Figures can trick your eyes. Take particular note that some of the figures reflect BILLIONS not millions of dollars – and that the third item exceeds one-third of a TRILLION dollars. Can you imagine how much it will cost taxpayers if we triple the number of illegals entering this country?

http://immigrationcounters.com/datasource.html

from immigrationcounters.com My bold for emphasis.

Before 1913, we had no income taxes. We had roads, schools, hospitals, post offices, etc.

In fact 100% of the Constitutional parts of our government could be paid for using only the tariffs and excise taxes already collected without raising them even a penny.

I am not stating an opinion, I am stating a FACT when I say the U.S. Government has absolutely zero legitimate or Constitutional authority to create or enforce immigration laws. The U.S. Constitution PROHIBITS the federal government from creating or enforcing immigration laws. I've proven this many times over.

This is black and white. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. I don't "interpret" the Constitution because it doesn't require interpretation. It's written in simple English and it means what it says and it says the Federal government has absolutely zero authority over immigration and has no implied powers because everything not enumerated in the Constitution is RESERVED as a power of the states or a right of the people.

Since there are no legitimate federal immigration laws, those who lie and claim immigrants are costing us money, that they are coming here for handouts, that they are closing hospitals, that they are here illegally, they are more likely to commit crimes than people born here, they are less intelligent than those born here, etc. have some other ax to grind.

They aren't here illegally, yet these people want to force them out. So if it's not a legal issue, it's a personal issue. And saying that it's either racism or xenophobia is truthful, not a straw man.

You are twisting the facts to meet your own needs to define law. You continue down this straw man approach by calling people xenophobes or racists and that is a failed path to make your case. You have not provided any primary resources to support your argument, you just want us to accept what you say on face value, and no one will do that on this subject. I have no idea how you think you can cherry pick legal issues at a federal government level and win an argument, because you can't and nothing you have stated to this date on this issue would be held up in court. There are Federal Statutes which make it illegal to enter our country in an unlawful manner.

"Congress enacted the McCarran-Walter
Bill of 1952, which combined existing immigration laws scattered throughout the federal statutes and recodified them into the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), located in Title 8 of the U.S. Code. The INA contains both civil and criminal laws that are applied to immigration issues. Traditionally,
the federal government has reserved civil enforcement power, such as verifying citizenship and deporting undocumented aliens, for itself, while allowing state and local governments some power over the criminal enforcement that supports illegal immigration control. While state police may investigate criminal activities such as a false identification or alien smuggling rings, federal
immigration officials will handle civil issues involving citizenship and deportation,
and do so without any input or assistance
from the state. However, this traditional
separation of sovereign powers is slowly eroding as states are granted, and in some cases are taking, more of a role in dealing
with illegal immigration."

http://www.legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/wb/07wb6.pdf

All of the people of whom you speak are ILLEGAL ALIENS and in this country unlawfully. Get it, breaking federal statute. Means they can go to jail and be deported after a hearing in front of a Federal Magistrate.

Before 1913, most people didn't have cars and roads were not maintained as they are now. Hospitals and schools etc were funded (largely) by private entities or churches.

Unless your country is living in surplus (and we all know it's not) on a continual basis, I don't think your government can afford not to tax people, and even if it were, it'd have to be a huge surplus.

I would venture to say that things have changed a little bit since 1913.

"Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, illegal immigration is a federal crime.

The code states: "Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both."

That illegal immigration is a crime has been the law since 1929. That folks buy into the fact that the first offense usually gets a "civil penalty" in the form of a fine leads them to believe that a misdemeanor is akin to a traffic citation. In reality, it is still a federal crime, but the penalty does not generally involve imprisonment. Subsequent offenses are supposed to be treated as federal felonies and do garner imprisonment."

You are a liar. I'm not stating opinions, I'm stating facts. I'm not "twisting" or "cherry picking" facts. I'm stating them clearly and in no uncertain terms.

The U.S. Government has absolutely no Constitutional authority over immigration and all federal immigration laws are unconstitutional, illegal, and therefore null and void.

That's a fact. It's not twisted. It's not wrong.

I've provided proof from the Constitution itself which PROHIBITS the federal government from having "implied powers" or from legislating anything not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

Any immigration laws created by Congress are irrelevant, including U.S. Code. Quote them all you like because they are unconstitutional. The Constitution is above all other laws in America, above the Congress, above the President, and above the Supreme Court.

Once again, these are not opinions, they are FACTS and they are stated clearly without "twisting" or "cherry picking" them.

None of the undocumented immigrants in America is violating any Constitutionally valid laws, and none of them are "illegal". Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar and an idiot....period.

You can lie about these people being "illegal" all you like. You can lie about the federal government having any authority over immigration. You can lie about most of the anti-immigrant crowd not being racist or xenophobic, but that's all they are...lies.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. The INDISPUTABLE FACT is the federal government has absolutely zero authority to create or enforce immigration laws and every single federal immigration law ever created is unconstitutional, illegal, and therefore null and void the moment it was created without the requirement of judicial review. End of story.

Anyone who supports any federal immigration laws is anti-American, and is spitting in the faces of our founders and supports violating the Constitution. If they are a veteran like myself, they are also a traitor to America and a scumbag.

So after you overthrow the government and let all the immigrants in, are you going to share your backyard with them Radar?

It doesn't matter what the conditions of the roads were in 1913, because our current excise taxes and tariffs collected can pay for the roads as they currently are. Also, hospitals and schools SHOULD be funded entirely by private funds.

Government should never have a "surplus". In should never have a single dime that it doesn't require to carry out only what is listed in the Constitution and NOTHING ELSE.

America's military should be 25% of its current size and each and every single U.S. military base outside of our own borders should be closed immediately and permanently. All government organizations or programs not enumerated in the Constitution should be eliminated including welfare, Medicare, Social Security, public education, business and farm subsidies, foreign aid, BATF, IRS, CIA, DEA, FBI, NSA, FCC, FDA, BLM, Homeland Security, ICE, etc.

Then our federal government would be doing what it should...staying out of our business and defending America. We'd have a legislature, a judicial system, a president, roads, a strong defensive military, etc.

We'd be more free, those in need would get more help than they do now, we'd have better schools, a better healthcare system, etc.

All of those people are completely and utterly illegal and should be thrown out on their ears, ok well not all of the illegals, but many of them. To think that the federal government cannot inact laws that deal with immigration shows the fantasy world you live in. I fully support the federal government in their efforts to round up and detain people who have broken our laws. There is nothing you can do about the federal government and their efforts, which is why you probably like to come here and exclaim your fantasy about how you believe the government can work within the framework of the Constitution. To bad you cannot support your notions and there is no way you could make such a legal case in a Federal Court. Have fun living your fantasy...:D

You sound like a child holding his breath crying and jumping up and down calling me a liar.... really pretty funny. :D

Only if they want to rent it. Did people have to share their backyards with the Irish, the Dutch, the Italians, the Germans, the English, the Greeks, the Russians, the Polish, etc.?

All of these people came in greater numbers than the Hispanic immigrants from a percentage of our total population standpoint, and they turned out to be a net positive for America just as the undocumented Mexican immigrants are. They worked to build a better life for themselves, and their loved ones, and sent money to their own country when they could. There's certainly no problem with that.

You prove nothing but your own stupidity, your disdain of the Constitution, and the fact that you are less deserving to be in America than the worst one of them. You claim there's nothing I can do, but my friends Smith & Wesson, and myself say otherwise. Don't be so stupid as to think I can't or won't take up arms in the defense of these people who are LEGALLY entering the United States without documentation or checking in with Uncle Sam. No pull your head out of your ass you fucking idiot.

You don't like the facts, so you try to ignore them. You think because your personal opinion is that the government should have certain powers, it does regardless of the Constitution. Unlike you, I served in the military and took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and I still take that oath seriously. You spit in the faces of our founders and if I were in the same room with you, I'd spit in your face and you'd do nothing about it other than cry like a little bitch.

Also, I didn't merely call you a liar, I proved it. Anyone who says these people are here illegally is a lying asshole, and unworthy to call themselves American. They should be deported to make room for the undocumented and LEGAL Mexican immigrants who truly understand the American dream.

:corn:


:biglaugha:

And you don't think the fact that most of the desirable areas to live already have ownership claims on them will cause conflict?

Remember, when the huge influx of immigrants arrived, much of the land was available, if not for free, then certainly at bargain basement prices.

Who do you think is going to practically give away their nice piece of land to a huge influx of new immigrants?

Don't you think these issues might contribute to the need for immigration laws?

Regardless of whether you want it to be true or not, all countries only have so much room to support a certain number of people. Once you go over that you risk civil war at the least.

This argument you have, whether it's correct or not, doesn't matter. The current state of the world does not allow for it unless you want to completely destroy your country.

You lose again. Your argument fails so you fall to personal attacks and threats. Another sure sign that your argument has no merit and you have no cogent argument to make. You are a pretty funny guy. :crazy:

I served 20+ years and retired, how many did you serve? You again make ass-u-mptions about things you know little about.

You must be a Mexican or the son of an illegal Mexican...:rolleyes:

What would you know of cogent arguments? I've already nailed your sorry ass to the wall, and provided indisputable facts. Your arguments amount to, "nuh uh....the government can make those laws...see here's one right here" as though that proves anything other than your own stupidity.

Also, I've made no threats. I'm hardly likely to be in a room with you so spitting in your face as you've spit in the faces of the founders is a moot point.

The fact remains that I'm right, and I've proven it, and you're wrong, and you've proven nothing. Nothing you say or do will change that. No amount of denials will change the fact that our federal government has absolutely zero authority to create or enforce immigration laws and that everyone who claims otherwise is a liar.

I assumed you were in the military, but you didn't take your oath seriously or you wouldn't be supporting unconstitutional laws, jackass.

No, I'm the offspring of Irish immigrants who were no better or worse than the undocumented and LEGAL Mexican immigrants who came here last night and who are no different than the sorry ass immigrants you are the offspring of.

ROTFLMAO!!!
:D :D


http://strix.org.uk/downloads/files/...z-you-fail.jpg

Were you this big of a cry baby on Active Duty as well? Did they kick you out?

No, I've never been a crybaby; not when I was on active duty, not now, and not ever. I served my time in the military and I got out. I didn't sign up for another 4 years. I didn't enjoy working for half the pay I can get in the private sector or working for people who were morons or who swore an oath to uphold the Constitution when they hadn't read it or understood it...like you.

I'm earning more than most generals in the military now and I'm certainly a better man, and a better American than you'll ever be.

http://www.vividblurry.com/STFU-Bitch_do_you.jpghttp://www.terminally-incoherent.com...OwnedAlien.jpg

[yawn] yea, I had punks like you court martialed all the time. No biggie, have a great fantasy life. :3eye:

In my rabbit assed mind, I wonder, does Radar really believe, or is he just yanking folks chain? His last post about all for the money kinda sucks to us VETS.

Oh he believes in it, in his little fantasy world. I saw hundreds of people like him over my career. Never would have made it past 4 years. What ever...
We know what we did and how we served. We don't need some delusional punk to tell us about what we believe or did in service to this country.

{next slide please}

Radar, that image you posted implies that a woman who speaks her mind should be beaten. YOU are an asshole.

You know who else earns more than a general!?!?!?

Whores, drug dealers, shister religious leaders, and John Edwards. :D

How cute. The pathetic moron who supports violating the Constitution and who lives in his own dream world where Congress has powers prohibited to it by the Constitution, calls me a punk. LOL!!! :lame:

Your service means nothing if you claim the federal government has any authority over immigration after being spoonfed the FACT that the Constitution prohibits it. I served with honor and distinction and left with my honorable discharge to do more challenging things while continuing to uphold my oath to defend the Constitution from foreign and domestic enemies of the Constitution...like you.

And businessmen, engineers, architects, and yes, successful attorneys like John Edwards. All of those on your list and mine are better people than you. :rolleyes:

Wait, wait!!! "successful attorneys like John Edwards" who made millions on case law and statutes inacted by Congress!
:lol2:

Son, you are no judge of that. 4 years and out hardly qualifies you to judge the rest of us.:headshake: :D

Radar. The only thing I've got out of 161 post, is that your maybe a narrow minded sob and haven't changed a single poster's mind. Go to bed

My 4 years makes me as much of a veteran as someone with 30 years and I'm certainly better educated, more honest, more patriotic, and have more integrity than you or a million more like you combined.

I certainly can judge those who support violating the U.S. Constitution and who have lied when they took an oath to the American people like you.

I've destroyed your laughable attempts to claim immigration laws are valid :blownup: and I've shown that you are nothing more than an annoying little turd. :turd:

I didn't seek out to change anyone's mind, only to prove the truth and to show that those who claim the government has any authority over immigration are liars, and those who want to force out undocumented Mexican immigrants are racists, xenophobes, and idiots.

How open minded should I be to the wrong answer when I know my answer to be correct?

Do you have any response to this Radar or are you going to just continue the pissing contest with merc?

You are delusional.

Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental illness that involves holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology (signs or symptoms of mental illness). In particular, a person with delusional disorder has never met any other criteria for schizophrenia and does not have any marked hallucinations, although tactile (touch) or olfactory (smell) hallucinations may be present if they are related to the theme of the delusion.

A person with delusional disorder can be quite functional and does not tend to show any odd or bizarre behavior except as a direct result of the delusional belief. "Despite the encapsulation of the delusional system and the relative sparing of the personality, the patient's way of life is likely to become more and more overwhelmed by the dominating effect of the abnormal beliefs". (Munro, 1999)

It is worth noting that the term paranoia was previously used in psychiatry to denote what is now called 'delusional disorder'. The modern psychiatric use of the word paranoia is subtly different but now rarely refers to this specific diagnosis.

You are certainly as much a Veteran. But that is about it. Your four years of service give you no ability to judge people over an internet forum because they disagree with your fantasy world and how you interpret the Constitutional authority of Congress. Illegal aliens are a tumor on society that needs to be controlled and excised. You have posted no evidence that you hold advanced degrees in law or any other area of expertise that would strengthen your argument. You have posted no factual objective data to support your arguments that Congress has no authority. Again you fail...:D

There was really nothing to respond to. My thread isn't about whether or not government SHOULD have the power to make immigration laws.

I'm stating the FACT that it DOES NOT have any Constitutional authority to create or enforce them right now.

He can't because he can't support any of those thoughts with facts.

My veteran status does not give me the ability to judge pathological liars and morons like you on the internet, but my many years as a Constitutional scholar and my superior education certainly does. One does not need a degree in law to read the simple English in the Constitution.

I've posted objective, factual, indisputable facts that the U.S. Government has absolutely zero authority to create or enforce immigration laws. Specifically I posted the 10th amendment which states that all things not listed in the Constitution are powers of the states or rights of the people and I proved that immigration is not listed and thwarted a few laughable attempts to stretch the Constitution by misusing the parts that allow government to repel invading hostile forces, the importation and migration of slaves, the ability of Congress to make rules concerning naturalization (not immigration), and the necessary and proper clause.

My argument doesn't need strengthening. It is air-tight, factual, and indisputable.

I've proven you to be nothing but a laughably stupid, racist, pathologically lying, asshole. You, and your moronic ilk, are more of a cancer to America than every undocumented immigrant to ever come to America.

You loze again... failed to provide objective facts other than your rants. Is tw your twin brother?
http://buzzcanuck.typepad.com/agentw...imoncowell.jpg

More facts about the Illegal aliens and their effects on our economy:

"Impact of Mexican
Immigration on Public Coffers

So far, this report has generally concentrated on public service use by Mexican immigrants; however, this is only half of the fiscal equation. Immigrants also pay taxes to federal, state, and local governments. The CPS contains estimated federal income tax liabilities for those in the sample. These estimates are based on adjusted gross income, number of dependents, and other tax characteristics. These estimates are useful because they can provide some insight into the likely tax payments made by immigrants and natives. Because of their much lower incomes and their larger family size, Mexican immigrants pay dramatically less in federal income taxes than do natives. The March 2000 CPS indicates that in 1999, the average federal income tax payment by households headed by Mexican immigrants was $2,156, less than one third of the $7,255 average tax contribution made by native households. By design, the federal income tax system is supposed to tax those with higher income and fewer dependents at higher rates than those with lower income and more dependents. So the much lower income tax contributions of Mexican immigrants simply reflect the tax code and not some systematic attempt by Mexican immigrants to avoid paying taxes.

In 1999, 74 percent of households headed by natives had to pay at least some federal income tax, compared to only 59 percent of Mexican immigrant households. Even if one confines the analysis to legal Mexican immigrants, the gap between their tax contributions and those of natives remains large. Using the same method as before to distinguish legal and illegal Mexican immigrant households, the estimated federal income liability of households headed by legal Mexican immigrants in 1999 was $2,538. Thus, the very low tax contribution of Mexican immigrants is not simply or even mostly a function of legal status, but rather reflects their much lower incomes and larger average family size.

The much lower tax payments made by Mexican immigrants point to a fundamental problem associated with unskilled immigration that seems unavoidable. Even if Mexican Immigrants’ use of public services were roughly equal to natives, there would still be a significant drain on public coffers because their average tax payments would be much lower. While much of the fiscal concern centers on use of means-tested programs, clearly tax payments matter at least as much when evaluating the fiscal impact of Mexican immigration. Changing welfare eligibility or other efforts designed to reduce immigrant use of public services will not change the fact that Mexican immigrants pay significantly less in taxes than natives.

While the above analysis provides some insight into the impact of Mexican immigrants on tax receipts at the federal level, it does not show the total fiscal impact of Mexican immigration. Over the last decade, a number of studies have attempted to estimate the total fiscal impact (tax payments minus services used) of immigrants on the United States at the federal, state, and local levels.

The most comprehensive research on this subject was done by the National Research Council (NRC), which is part of the National Academy of Sciences. The study, conducted in 1997, found that more-educated immigrants tend to have higher earnings, lower rates of public service use, and as a result pay more in taxes than they use in services. In contrast, the NRC found that because of their lower incomes and resulting lower tax payments coupled with their heavy use of public services, less-educated immigrants use significantly more in services than they pay in taxes. The NRC estimates indicated that the average immigrant without a high school education imposes a net fiscal burden on public coffers of $89,000 during the course of his or her lifetime. The average immigrant with only a high school education creates a lifetime fiscal burden of $31,000. In contrast, the average immigrant with more than a high school education was found to have a positive fiscal impact of $105,000 in his or her lifetime. The NAS further estimated that the total combined fiscal impact of the average immigrant (all educational categories included) was a negative $3,000. Thus, when all immigrants are examined they are found to have a modest negative impact on public coffers. These figures are only for the original immigrant, they do not include public services used or taxes paid by their U.S.-born descendants.

Using the fiscal analysis developed by the NRC, it is possible to roughly estimate the fiscal effect of adult Mexican immigrants on the United States. Applying the NRC’s estimates by educational attainment and age is possible because the NRC’s research is based on the same data as this study — the March Current Population Survey.28 Using the estimates developed by the NRC and based on the educational attainment and age of newly arrived adult Mexican immigrants in 2000, we find that the lifetime fiscal burden created by the average adult Mexican immigrant is $50,300.29 It should be pointed out that these figures were based on 1996 dollars. Adjusted for inflation, the fiscal burden would be $55,200 in 2000.

Since a very large share of Mexican immigrants have little formal education, the fiscal burden they create seems unavoidable. The modern American labor market offers very limited opportunities for the unskilled — immigrant or native. It therefore should come as no surprise that they use a great deal more in public services than they pay in taxes during the course of their lives. While consistent with previous research as well as common sense, the large fiscal deficit created by Mexican immigration should sound a cautionary note to those who argue that there is no harm in allowing large numbers of unskilled workers from Mexico into the country. Even if employers wish to have access to unskilled immigrant labor, the cost to taxpayers indicates that for the nation this may not be wise. Mexican immigration becomes, in effect, a subsidy for employers of unskilled labor, with taxpayers providing services such as education, health insurance and medical care, and income-transfer programs such as the Earned Income Tax Credit to workers who, because of their low incomes, pay nowhere near enough in taxes to cover their consumption of services."

http://www.illegalaliens.us/economics.htm

I have provided objective facts many times over.

Objective and Verifiable Fact: The 10th amendment PROHIBITS the federal government from legislating or taking part in anything not specifically enumerated in the Constitution and RESERVES everything not listed in the Constitution as a power of the states or a right of the people.


Objective and Verifiable Fact: No part of the U.S. Constitution mentions immigration as one of the powers of the federal government.

End of story. Nothing you say matters beyond this. No mention of the many unconstitutional federal immigration laws matters. No mention of U.S. Code, or court cases, or unconstitutional government departments like ICE matters. No law, court decision, or branch of government matters because they are all below the U.S. Constitution.

So once again, we see what you really are...

http://spankingbeaarthur.files.wordp...tical_liar.jpg

More on the negative effects of illegal aliens on our economy...

An excerpt follows:

"Business interests however are short-term. Easy immediate access to labour will always be preferred to the costs of training and capital investment for the longer term. In the nature of economic cycles, yesterday’s essential labour can often become, as the defunct factories and mills of Europe have shown, today’s unemployed. Employers who demanded immigrant labour are not held to account for this or required to contribute to subsequent costs of their unemployed former workers. Few things are more permanent that temporary worker from a poor country. If business were made responsible for the lifetime costs of their migrant labour in the same way as they must now deal with the lifetime environmental costs of their products, perhaps enthusiasm for labour migration might be moderated and make way for longer-term investment in capital-intensive restructuring."

Continues:
http://www.populationenvironmentrese...nmigration.pdf

Mass Immigration Cost American Taxpayers $69 Billion Net and 2 Million Jobs
Study by Dr. Donald Huddle Reports Legal Immigration of over 1 Million Per Year Accounts for over 62% of Costs
State Costs to Taxpayers are Also Soaring (1996 Net Costs % up from 1992):

California: $28 billion up 35%

New York: $14 billion up 29%

Texas: $7 billion up 37%

Florida: $6 billion up 77%

The first study of the net cost of immigration to American taxpayers in 1997 conducted by Dr. Donald Huddle, Professor Emeritus of Economics at Rice University, found that:

The nearly 26 million legal and illegal immigrants settling in the United States since 1970 cost taxpayers a net $69 billion in 1997 alone, in excess of taxes those immigrants paid. This represents a cost of $260 in additional taxes paid by each U.S. resident or $1,030 in additional taxes paid by each family of four. This cost is a substantial increase over the net immigration costs of $65 billion ins 1996, $51 billion ins 1994, $44 billion in 1993, and $43 billion in 1992.

Over 62% of the net national cost of immigration in 1996, $40.6 billion, was attributable to legal and legalized (amnesty) immigrants. Illegal immigration generates about 38%, $24 billion of the total net cost. Legal immigration levels are over one million per year, and rising.

During 1996, approximately 2.3 million predominantly low-skill American workers were displaced from their jobs due to the continued heavy influx of immigrant workers since 1970. Taxpayers paid more than $15.2 billion in public assistance for those displaced workers in 1996, including Medicaid, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC), unemployment compensation, and food stamps.

A net deficit of $8.5 billion dollars to the Social Security system in 1996 is attributable to the economic impact of the foreign-born population. Continued mass immigration threatens the solvency of the Social Security system.

Net cumulative costs for the 1998-2007 decade are projected to reach $932 billion, an average of $93.2 billion per year, even with recent changes in welfare and immigration policies and a prosperous economy, if current mass immigration trends are allowed to continue.

Breakdown for 1997 Costs of Legal Immigration
Public Schools (Primary, Secondary, Higher, etc) $22.5 billion

Bilingual Education, ESOL, ESL Education $ 3.3 billion

Medicaid $12.8 billion

AFDC (for legal and illegal immigrant's offspring) $ 2.4 billion

Social Security $24.8 billion

Supplemental Security Income $ 2.9 billion

Housing Assistance $ 2.6 billion

Criminal Justice $ 2.6 billion

Jobs Lost by Americans $10.8 billion

Other Programs $51.4 billion

1997 Total Costs for LEGAL Immigration: $136 billion

Add 1997 total costs for illegal immigration of $41 billion and subtract an estimated $108 billion in taxes paid by all immigrants (legal and illegal) in 1997 to obtain the overall net figure of $69 billion charged to you, and other American taxpayers.

Other key facts regarding immigration are:

1.) If current immigration trends continue, the current U.S. population of

274 million will nearly double to over 500,000,000 by 2050. (The U.S. was 135 million at the end of WWII.)

2.) Harvard Professor George Borjas demonstrated that mass immigration costs American workers $133 billion per year in wage depression and job loss.

3.) The prestigious National Research Council found at the state and local levels (which bear most of the burden for K-12 education) the net fiscal burden of the average immigrant-headed household (i.e., after subtracting state and local taxes the household paid) was:

$1,484 per immigrant-headed household in New Jersey (in the 1989-1990 fiscal year); and $3,463 in California (in 1994-1995)(p. 276-277)

Why should we continue to allow our own working poor, homeless, and unemployed to continue to suffer from the job loss, wage depression, and other burdens imposed by mass immigration?

http://www.carryingcapacity.org/huddlenr.html

Right, so you didn't want to discuss it? You just went in with your view and wanted to shove it down everyone else's throat? You just want people to acknowledge that your way of thinking is right?

My question was, what if your way is right? What then?

If you don't want to answer that question, then it proves my first statement because you're not interested in discussing anything other than your point of view which you've made clear you're not going to change.

So, if we work on the assumption that you're correct what then? Do you have a response? Have you thought beyond your own views at all?

The Truth about Undocumented Immigration



Undocumented Immigrants Effect on Social Security

• Undocumented immigrants compose about three percent of the total US population. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso)
  
• The estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the Social Security system with a subsidy of about $7 billion a year. (The New York Times)
  
• Immigrants contribute billions of dollars annually but receive no public pension in retirement, are not eligible for Medicare, and are not entitled to any other benefits. (Social Security Administration)
  
• Most undocumented workers pay taxes, and they pay a variety of taxes. (The New York Times)
  
• The money that undocumented immigrants paid in 2004 added up to about 10 percent of that year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it pays in pension benefits. (Social Security Administration)
  
• The money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections. (Social Security Administration)
  
• After the 1986 passage of the Immigration Reform and Control Act, the Social Security Administration began receiving mountains of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect or fake Social Security numbers, and placed them in the "earnings suspense file." Since then, the file has grown, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes. (Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago)
  
• Many older workers return home to Latin America when they reach retirement age. (BusinessWeek)

The Healthcare System and Undocumented Immigrants

• Immigrants are not swamping the U.S. health care system and use it far less than native-born Americans. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Immigrants accounted for 10.4 percent of the U.S. population but only 7.9 percent of total health spending and 8 percent of government health spending. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Thirty percent of immigrants use no health care at all during the course of a year. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Immigrant children spent or cost $270 a year, compared to $1,059 for native-born children. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Most immigrants have health insurance. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• In reality, if more restrictions were placed on health care for immigrants, very little money would be saved, and many immigrant children would be put at grave risk. Many immigrant children already fail to get regular checkups, and as a result, more end up needing emergency care, or get no care at all. (The American Journal of Public Health)
  
• Many immigrants actually help to subsidize health care and social security for the rest the country. (Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University)
  
• Immigrants pay taxes -- including Medicare payroll taxes -- and most pay health insurance premiums, but they receive only half as much care as other families. (The American Journal of Public Health)

Economic Impact of Undocumented Immigrants

• Undocumented immigrants have become a new source of economic growth as giant U.S. consumer companies like banks, insurers, mortgage lenders, credit-card outfits, phone carriers, and others aggressively market to over 11 million undocumented customers. (BusinessWeek)
  
• Undocumented immigrants add 600,000 to 700,000 new consumers to the economy every year. (Pew Research Center)
  
• 84% of undocumented immigrants are 18-to-44-year-olds, in their prime spending years, vs. 60% of legal residents. (BusinessWeek)
  
• Allowing immigrants financial privileges boosts corporate profits because it enables them to move out of the cash economy, put their money in banks, and take out credit cards, car loans, and home mortgages. U.S. gross national product also surges because consumers with credit can spend more than those limited to cash. (BusinessWeek)
  
• When more undocumented immigrants pay income and property taxes, they help ease the tax burden for others when it comes to paying for schools, health care, roads, and other services immigrants use. (BusinessWeek)
  
• Letting the undocumented save and invest, could also result in a decline in crime because if immigrants are allowed to protect their money in banks, the rate of hold ups and robberies in Latino or immigrant neighborhoods drop. (Austin Police Department)
  
• Immigrants benefit the economy more than they take away in social services. (National Academy of the Sciences)
  
• In 2004, Arizona suffered severe labor shortages and huge quantities of lettuce went unpicked because growers lacked pickers. In 2005, the Central Valley in California had 70,000 to 80,000 labor positions that were unfilled. Legalizing workers would alleviate such labor shortages. (Benjamin Powell, economist at the Independent Institute)
  
• Immigrants are one of the main labor sources for the rebuilding and clean-up effort in post-Katrina Louisiana and Mississippi. (NewAmericanMedia.org)
  
• As much as half of all U.S. retail banking growth is expected to come from new immigrants over the next decade. (The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp)
  
• Hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrant households earn enough to qualify for $95,000 mortgages. (National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals)
  
• ITIN and conventional mortgages taken out by undocumented could be worth as much as $60 billion over the next five years. (National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals) Undocumented immigrants now comprise fully half of all farm laborers, up from 12% in 1990. (US Department of Labor)
  
• Undocumented immigrants are 25% of workers in the meat and poultry industry, 24% of dishwashers, and 27% of drywall and ceiling tile installers. (The Pew Research Center)
  
• The overall proportion of unauthorized workers in the labor force is 4.3%. Employers from many sectors of the US economy employ unauthorized immigrants – including enormous amounts of private US households. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso)
  
• The estimated population growth rate in Mexico is declining rapidly and may soon be slower than that in the US. (United Nations)
  
• Immigrants benefit the United States economy but their potential remains hindered by current laws. They do not deplete government resources, as is widely believed. (Benjamin Powell, economist at the Independent Institute)
  
• Undocumented add at least $22 billion, in total, to the economy each year, and legalizing their status would increase that amount. (Benjamin Powell, economist at the Independent Institute).

National Security and the Undocumented

• None of the 9/11 terrorists entered the country via the US/Mexico border. In fact, the US is most vulnerable at its ports of entry, including ship ports, airports, and land ports. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).
  
• It is not easy to immigrate to the US legally as it often takes decades before an individual can obtain many kinds of legal immigrant visas. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).
  
• Working with Mexico is central to the future of controlling the US border. Through cooperation with Mexico, the US will be able to isolate criminals, publicize rules, and identify forms of Mexican identification. (Peter Laufer, former NBC new correspondent).
  
• Enhanced border enforcement only increases the number of deaths of men, women, and children at the border annually. Areas with heavy border security see up to 100 additional deaths a year. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).
  
• While heavy border does not stop the volume of unauthorized border crossing, it does increase the costs and risks of coming to the US, including death, injury, and the use of smugglers. It also reduces the number of back and forth trips, forcing undocumented immigrants to stay longer. (Josiah Heyman of the University of Texas at El Paso).

Post your citation please so we can examine where it comes from and where they gather their facts from. Thanks.

Why should I? So you can attack the source?

It's from here

Possibly biased