The Cellar

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)
-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Al Franken...is this for real? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15324)

tw 01-11-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 521179)
That's your opinion; but nevertheless, in the petty back-n-forth there is a line that you shouldn't cross, which you have crossed.

All I did is follow TheMercenary's lead. And I have no problem with doing it and doing it again. I responded after watching personal attacks on other posters AND Brianna complaining about TheMercenary using the word 'constant'. Where is you scolding of TheMercenary? You too remain silent - only scold the symptom? UT, you stay silent about the problem and the symptoms start again. That would be unavoidable because it would be necessary. I crossed no line that the problem had not already crossed and did so "constant". Did I finally get your attention? Will you finally address the problem? Address the problem and symptoms go away.

TheMercenary 01-11-2009 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 521174)
So why did both continue to try posting by other means and get stopped again? That was not banning? Of course they were banned. Exactly the point. You stayed silent - encouraged - the childish nonsense started and routinely posted by TheMercenary. Meanwhile I replied with posts that also included supporting fact why AND no insults. (Wacko extremisms is a term just like moderate is a term.) Now that TheMercenary has accelerated his personal attack in numbers and intensity, I have again replied in kind – as anyone would be expected to after so long.

If you ban me, then an honest (logical) Bruce must also ban TheMercenary, UG, and classicman. I have simply caused you to stop ignoring your duties as a Cellar dwellar - to maintain the integrity and tone I have seen for 20 years - due to peer pressure. (Also obvious should be that I am not calling for banning - a challenge for you to see what is posted rather than apply assumptions into conclusions.)

So you still do nothing - pretend these is no problem. Where is that post threaening TheMercenary. Oh. You repeatedly attack the symptoms - not the problem. Then what I stated yesterday and accruately about his wife was necessary and unavoidable. Others also defined the problem. Add Griff to the list. Instead you ignore the facts; choose to attack the messenger who finally got your attention. Instead you attack what makes you feel rather than deal with the problem. Where is one post from you to TheMercenary to stop it? You remain both silent and in denial. You encourage him to attack piercehawkeye45, radar, and others.

TheMercenary is the reason long before I had no choice but the reply vicously and with irratation. I responded long after merc routinely posted kindergarten attacks. Yes, assume that sentence is bluntly addressing your denials and misguided response. Shame on 'Bruce the Almighty' for encouraging what then had to happen. Or go away so TheMercenary can continue to destroy the tone and attitude once found in the Cellar for 20 years.


TheMercenary 01-11-2009 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 521182)
All I did is follow TheMercenary's lead. And I have no problem with doing it and doing it again. I responded after watching personal attacks on other posters AND Brianna complaining about TheMercenary using the word 'constant'. Where is you scolding of TheMercenary? You too remain silent - only scold the symptom? UT, you stay silent about the problem and the symptoms start again. That would be unavoidable because it would be necessary. I crossed no line that the problem had not already crossed and did so "constant". Did I finally get your attention? Will you finally address the problem? Address the problem and symptoms go away.


Undertoad 01-11-2009 03:45 PM

Thomas, don't take me for a fool. I know what you did. You know what you did. Everybody in the god damn forum knows what you did. To sit there and defend it is weak, weak cheese, and insulting to everybody involved.

tw 01-11-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 521188)
To sit there and defend it is weak, weak cheese, and insulting to everybody involved.

You are now calling me a liar. Shame on you for calling me a liar AND for still ignoring the problem - TheMercenary. I told you my intent (which is exactly same when the same problem existed previously). If you have a problem with that, then you are letting your anger (which I intentionally provoked to get you off your ass) make decisions for you. I intentionally posted (in part) to anger you so that you would address the problem. Instead of responding logically, you attacked the victim? That pretty low.

Get your attetion? Good. Here is what you are calling a lie. You are scolding the symptoms and condoning the problem with your silence. Show me the lie in that? Instead, I am encouraging you to stop letting TheMercenary make you into a fool. What I did was necessary - as it was necessary when I did the same thing previously. What I posted was only equivalent to what TheMercenary has been posting now for months. I have no reason to apologize for addressing the increasingly unfavorable Cellar tone. And you have no logical reason to attack the symptoms while encouraging the problem. I finally got your attention. Now solve that problem.

xoxoxoBruce 01-11-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 521174)
So why did both continue to try posting by other means and get stopped again? That was not banning? Of course they were banned.

April had problems posting while moving from CA to AZ to CA to Hong Kong, but that was not our doing. Neither were banned.

Quote:

Exactly the point. You stayed silent - encouraged - the childish nonsense started and routinely posted by TheMercenary. Meanwhile I replied with posts that also included supporting fact why AND no insults. (Wacko extremisms is a term just like moderate is a term.) Now that TheMercenary has accelerated his personal attack in numbers and intensity, I have again replied in kind – as anyone would be expected to after so long.
You forgot the LOL smilie, because you can't be serious. If didn't stay silent, half your rants would be deleted. You've insulted everyone that has had the unmitigated gall to question your opinions, since I've been on this board. Your evading questions, and introducing oh-look-a-birdie tangents, is a staple around here. That makes your present attempt for the moral highground the source of great amusement for the rest of us.
Quote:

If you ban me, then an honest (logical) Bruce must also ban TheMercenary, UG, and classicman. I have simply caused you to stop ignoring your duties as a Cellar dwellar - to maintain the integrity and tone I have seen for 20 years - due to peer pressure. (Also obvious should be that I am not calling for banning - a challenge for you to see what is posted rather than apply assumptions into conclusions.)
Guess what? I do see through what is posted, and so does everyone else, but we tolerate you anyway. If we were to censor this board to maintain the tone you set, the Cellar would be the joke of the internet.
Quote:

So you still do nothing - pretend these is no problem.
Does laughing count?
Quote:

Where is that post threaening TheMercenary. Oh. You repeatedly attack the symptoms - not the problem. Then what I stated yesterday and accruately about his wife was necessary and unavoidable.
Wrong, and you've been warned that is unacceptable.
Quote:

Others also defined the problem. Add Griff to the list. Instead you ignore the facts; choose to attack the messenger who finally got your attention. Instead you attack what makes you feel rather than deal with the problem. Where is one post from you to TheMercenary to stop it? You remain both silent and in denial. You encourage him to attack piercehawkeye45, radar, and others.
Right, it's all my fault, as are diseases, pestilence, wars and MBAs.
Quote:

TheMercenary is the reason long before I had no choice but the reply vicously and with irratation.
Oh you had a choice, many of them, but if you feel you don't, I can give you some very specific choices I doubt would make you happy.
Quote:

I responded long after merc routinely posted kindergarten attacks. Yes, assume that sentence is bluntly addressing your denials and misguided response. Shame on 'Bruce the Almighty'
Genuflect when you say that, pardner.
Quote:

for encouraging what then had to happen. Or go away so TheMercenary can continue to destroy the tone and attitude once found in the Cellar for 20 years.
Well, isn't that special.

I've already spelled out clearly where I draw the line. I will continue to maintain that position until I'm instructed to do otherwise.
By whom? It sure ain't you.

TheMercenary 01-11-2009 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw (Post 521194)
You are now calling me a liar. Shame on you for calling me a liar AND for still ignoring the problem - TheMercenary. I told you my intent (which is exactly same when the same problem existed previously). If you have a problem with that, then you are letting your anger (which I intentionally provoked to get you off your ass) make decisions for you. I intentionally posted (in part) to anger you so that you would address the problem. Instead of responding logically, you attacked the victim? That pretty low.

Get your attetion? Good. Here is what you are calling a lie. You are scolding the symptoms and condoning the problem with your silence. Show me the lie in that? Instead, I am encouraging you to stop letting TheMercenary make you into a fool. What I did was necessary - as it was necessary when I did the same thing previously. What I posted was only equivalent to what TheMercenary has been posting now for months. I have no reason to apologize for addressing the increasingly unfavorable Cellar tone. And you have no logical reason to attack the symptoms while encouraging the problem. I finally got your attention. Now solve that problem.


Urbane Guerrilla 01-15-2009 08:00 PM

Tw, not only is your intellect impoverished, you are a crybaby as well. You've tried the same with me, to no result exept an additional burden of general contempt. Now in trying it with TheMercenary, you go from the contemptible to the beneath ridiculous, all because you handle emotion like a toddler.

Flint 01-27-2009 05:35 PM

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Flint 01-27-2009 05:36 PM

So. Whatever happened with the Al Franken deal?

kerosene 01-27-2009 05:43 PM

My scroll finger hurts.

Flint 01-27-2009 05:44 PM

[ctrl+end] and conversely [ctrl+home]

Happy Monkey 01-27-2009 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 527219)
So. Whatever happened with the Al Franken deal?

Coleman is gonna make the trial last as l o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o ng as he can, to keep Franken out of the senate as long as possible. He's calling for a post-recount court review of all 11000 absentee ballots that were rejected in the first round.

Undertoad 01-27-2009 08:06 PM

It's almost like a... a superior court of some kind should step in and tell them to stop counting.

classicman 01-27-2009 08:55 PM

Hold a special election, but get them both to sign off on accepting the results beforehand. There is no way it could possibly be that close again. Its gotta be cheaper than all this crap.

Griff 01-28-2009 12:04 PM

The race is well within the margin for error, so I'd say special election or coin toss.

I saw what you did there, UT.

classicman 01-28-2009 12:54 PM

Ooooh coin toss..I like that its much cheaper and faster.

Then again maybe they could play h-o-r-s-e or p-i-g, ya know a little one on one for it.

TheMercenary 01-28-2009 05:54 PM

Coin toss, I am good for that.

piercehawkeye45 01-28-2009 08:55 PM

Just allow the lizard people to take over.

TheMercenary 01-29-2009 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45 (Post 527810)
Just allow the lizard people to take over.

They might be a better choice. Wait, they already dominate Congress. :D

piercehawkeye45 01-29-2009 02:06 PM

psst.......they dominate EVERYTHING!!!!

:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:

classicman 01-29-2009 06:03 PM

I'm afraid this isn't even close to being over....

Coleman to argue Franken won by bogus recount

Quote:

An election-night count showed Coleman, who was the incumbent senator from Minnesota, ahead by a few hundred votes. A recount handed victory to his opponent, Democrat Al Franken, by 225 votes. About 3 million ballots were cast in the race.

"We have a good shot at this, and so I proceed with that in mind," Coleman said last week, calling Franken's lead "artificial."

To aid in his battle, Coleman has retained Ben Ginsberg, the lawyer who led the Florida recount efforts for the Republican side during the disputed presidential election in 2000.

Coleman's attorneys plan to argue three points:

• That nearly 12,000 absentee ballots rejected on Election Day should be recounted because at least 4,500 of them were discarded in error. If those ballots are allowed, they could flip the race back in Coleman's favor.

• That the canvassing board did not use a uniform standard when it counted 933 ballots from the discarded pile of absentee ballots. Those 933 gave Franken the edge.

• That some votes were counted twice, which also worked in Franken's favor.

The Franken side will ask the Minnesota Supreme Court on February 5 to order Gov. Tim Pawlenty and Secretary of State Mark Ritchie to issue a temporary election certificate so Franken can be seated in the Senate. Both men have refused, saying they will wait until the matter is resolved.

TheMercenary 01-29-2009 06:50 PM

I think they should have a duel. And make sure Franken's gun has no bullets.

classicman 01-29-2009 09:36 PM

ohhhhh thats even better than the coin toss! How bout a cage match like Ultimate fighter - They could put it on Pay-per-view and pay off their campaign debt...or a little of it anyway.

Happy Monkey 01-29-2009 10:39 PM

Heh...

Heh heh...

classicman 01-29-2009 11:43 PM

yeh ok. :eyebrow:

TheMercenary 02-04-2009 07:50 AM

Well there you have it.

Quote:

Senate recount trial judges put 4,800 more ballots in play
The decision expands the evidence that can be considered in the recount trial, giving Coleman the opportunity to put more ballots into play in his effort to erase a 225-vote lead for Franken.

By PAT DOYLE and KEVIN DUCHSCHERE, Star Tribune staff writers

Last update: February 4, 2009 - 6:41 AM
In a ruling that keeps alive Republican Norm Coleman's chances of overturning Minnesota's U.S. Senate recount, a three-judge panel on Tuesday allowed him to bring evidence to trial that as many as 4,800 absentee ballots were wrongly rejected and should now be counted.

The decision expands the evidence that can be considered in the recount trial, giving Coleman the opportunity to put more ballots into play in his effort to erase a 225-vote lead for DFLer Al Franken. The Franken campaign had tried to limit Coleman to bringing evidence on only 650 absentee ballots that he cited specifically when he filed his lawsuit challenging the recount results.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/...DiaMDCinchO7DU

glatt 02-04-2009 07:59 AM

That's fair. The judges can always review the evidence and ignore it if it's not relevant. It's reasonable to have the evidence available for their review.

classicman 02-04-2009 08:00 AM

I don't think thats enough to change the outcome in an election this close. It is interesting though.

TheMercenary 02-04-2009 08:55 AM

I like the idea that they used a three judge panel. It minimizes the possibility that anyone is going to come back and say it was a partisan decision.

xoxoxoBruce 02-04-2009 10:43 AM

Maybe, are the judges appointed or elected?

TheMercenary 02-04-2009 10:54 AM

Good question. I have no idea.

Happy Monkey 02-04-2009 06:04 PM

And there you have more:

Quote:

The Minnesota election court has just handed down a major ruling, completely denying Norm Coleman's motion for summary judgment that would have opened up and counted a set of roughly 4,500 rejected absentee ballots that his campaign insists were wrongly rejected and ought to be counted.
Earlier today, the court similarly rejected Franken's attempt to have the ballots set aside entirely and to limit Coleman to a pool of 654 ballots, which at the time the Coleman camp was hailing as a major victory that will ensure votes are counted. But it turns out it's not that easy.
If it turns out that all of the ballots were incorrectly rejected, Coleman would have to beat Franken by almost 5% in them. If 3000 were incorrectly rejected, that number goes over 7%. If it is 1000 - still very high - Coleman would have to get more than 22% more of them than Franken. And, just to go to the other extereme, if it were 227, Coleman would have to get them all. (Math from here. YMMV on Kos, but math is math.)

It's just a tactic to keep the Senate Democrats as far below 60 as possible as long as possible.

Urbane Guerrilla 02-06-2009 10:20 PM

I still think it's beyond belief that half the Minnesota electorate could want the likes of Al Franken for a Senator. Freakish. Even more freakish if Al continues to act like Al in office. It would be a pleasant -- and a complete -- surprise to discover a statesman there, but I'm not holding my breath.

TGRR 02-06-2009 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 531490)
I still think it's beyond belief that half the Minnesota electorate could want the likes of Al Franken for a Senator.

Probably says more about his opponent.

Redux 02-06-2009 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGRR (Post 531492)
Probably says more about his opponent.

Sure does...Coleman had the dubious distinction of losing to Jesse Ventura for governor.

He was fortunate his opponent (Paul Wellstone) when he ran for Senate in 02 died in plane crash the week before the election.

Coleman is an intellectual lightweight...Franken certainly cant be any worse.

I dont expect Franken to be doing Mick Jagger impersonations on the floor of the Senate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mwsDFm7bQ

Urbane Guerrilla 02-06-2009 10:29 PM

His opponent's most distinguishing characteristic is he's a Republican...

... not completely scandal free, it seems. Money for Norm, or was it Norm's wife?

TGRR 02-07-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux (Post 531494)
I dont expect Franken to be doing Mick Jagger impersonations on the floor of the Senate.


:mad2:

Redux 02-09-2009 11:01 PM

Coleman is calling in the God card:
Quote:

When asked about the recount and how it is affecting him personally, Coleman said he starts every day with a prayer and that he knows “God wants me to serve.” Coleman did later temper those rather immodest remarks by adding that he “is not indispensable” and that others can serve as well. Coleman closed the interview with an appeal to Gallagher’s listeners for contributions to his campaign website.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/cspg/smartpo...ts_me_to_s.php
But he still needs your contributions!

fomentor 02-10-2009 01:30 AM

http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/frankenbabynaked.jpg

i should have a funny politically relevant caption for this but i don't

classicman 02-10-2009 08:09 AM

How about:
Minnesota, Welcome your next senator! ROAR goes the crowd!

sugarpop 02-10-2009 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla (Post 531490)
I still think it's beyond belief that half the Minnesota electorate could want the likes of Al Franken for a Senator. Freakish. Even more freakish if Al continues to act like Al in office. It would be a pleasant -- and a complete -- surprise to discover a statesman there, but I'm not holding my breath.

Hey, Jesse Ventura pulled off being governor, why not Al Franken as a senator?

sugarpop 02-10-2009 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fomentor (Post 532734)
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/frankenbabynaked.jpg

i should have a funny politically relevant caption for this but i don't

Is that picture even real?

Redux 02-10-2009 10:08 AM

What the Senate needs is good porn star:

Daft Stormy for Senate

"Politics can't be any dirtier of a job than the one I am already in." - Stormy Daniels.

fomentor 02-10-2009 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop (Post 532786)
Is that picture even real?

from saturday night live most likely but i am not positive.

xoxoxoBruce 02-10-2009 12:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
It's the past.

Happy Monkey 02-10-2009 03:26 PM

Far be it for me to make fun of someone for having long hair, but...

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...rm-coleman.jpg

Gorgeous!

Trilby 02-10-2009 03:50 PM

I don't have time to read 12 pages of posts - Did Franken win or what?

Happy Monkey 02-10-2009 03:55 PM

Yes, but it's not official until the lawsuit is over.

glatt 02-10-2009 03:55 PM

Not yet.

Trilby 02-10-2009 04:20 PM

Thankee.

TheMercenary 02-10-2009 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 532841)
It's the past.

Dapper.

tw 02-10-2009 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 532942)
Yes, but it's not official until the lawsuit is over.

Last I read, the courts authorized a review of another 4000+ votes.

Happy Monkey 02-10-2009 07:58 PM

A review of absentee ballots that have already been rejected twice.

And, as I mentioned above, even if a significant number of those rejections are overturned, Coleman would have to win them by a significant margin. For the required margin to be less than 10%, well over 1000 ballots would have to be found to have twice been incorrectly rejected.

Again, that is not that Coleman would win if he gets a full quarter of his requested ballots counted. That's how many he needs counted if he wants to be able to win with less than a double digit advantage over Franken - something that this election does not seem to give much hope for.

TGRR 02-11-2009 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 533034)
A review of absentee ballots that have already been rejected twice.

And, as I mentioned above, even if a significant number of those rejections are overturned, Coleman would have to win them by a significant margin. For the required margin to be less than 10%, well over 1000 ballots would have to be found to have twice been incorrectly rejected.

Again, that is not that Coleman would win if he gets a full quarter of his requested ballots counted. That's how many he needs counted if he wants to be able to win with less than a double digit advantage over Franken - something that this election does not seem to give much hope for.

Nobody will ever believe or trust the winner, and I think we all agree that's what's important.

Urbane Guerrilla 02-11-2009 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarpop (Post 532785)
Hey, Jesse Ventura pulled off being governor, why not Al Franken as a senator?

Look at Jesse Ventura's early career for why he really pulled it off; being a SEAL tends to get you pretty solidly grounded. Al's got nothing of the kind in his resumé. Too, I think being a former SEAL is also why Jesse Ventura was a one-term Governor. He did not morph into a slickster of a politician, and I bet he didn't acquire much of a taste for it.

OnyxCougar 02-12-2009 01:24 PM

I was banned?

classicman 02-12-2009 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar (Post 533722)
I was banned?

Huh? What?

Clodfobble 02-12-2009 05:13 PM

No, someone accidentally mentioned her name way earlier in the thread in a list of other people who were banned--OC herself was never banned, she just disappeared for awhile.

classicman 02-12-2009 05:55 PM

Oh, that s right tw was citing OC as an example - thanks.


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