I just finished reading Nick Hornby's HOW TO BE GOOD and it seems to fit this thread. Interesting look at marriage and divorce.

I've got a book too. "Screw The Bitch" from Loompanics Unlimited. Amazon has it. It's an uphill battle to get centered again after having the future snatched away. It's too easy to be bitter and paranoid. Time heals all (non-fatal) wounds, but the scars remain.
:(

I guess what I was trying to say in my earlier post was that sometimes a relationship loses something when it's no longer a challenge...
All of the "you'll be okay" advice is right, but I just really hope your marital trouble doesn't end in divorce. Of course you can't stop it sometimes, but I have a lot of admiration for hearing that you're already willing to forgive an affair, if that's the case. Shit happens, life happens, and forgiving a mistake, or forgiving infidelity even if she doesn't regret it, shows that you're willing to work on whatever it is that is wrong. Sometimes it not only saves a marriage, but makes it better. Maybe she needs to figure out that the passion that couples feel at first simply does not last forever. When my husband and I met 3 1/2 years ago, we would stay in bed all week-end, for the last couple years we've been in a "routine". Sometimes it's only a 2-3 times a month routine. Sometimes, I even feel like I love him more than I'm "in love" with him, but I'm 46 years old, been through a few relationships, and know it would be this way with anyone. I'm going to continue to hope really hard for the two of you...

Any lively conversation and happy roll in the hay can provide us with such a rush that, after a couple of successive sparkling new encounters, free of the baggage of a longer relationship, we may very well feel like we are "in love" with the other person. The human animal is wired that way. It is Nature's way of ensuring that we spread our superior genetics (well, mine are superior, anyway, and I'm sure all of yours are as well) around as widely as possible. New=Heightened *Everything* on the biochemical level.

Unfortunately, we're also creatures of consciousness, and as such, of *conscience*. For my own part, I know intuitively, deeply, for certain that the truest measure of love must include an ample helping of respect, perseverence and common sacrifice. These are fundamental things that build the foundations of an enduring relationship, long after the biochemical boil has eased back to a slow simmer.

How are we to balance our gut level desire to boil with our intellectual yearning for a long term simmer? Beats the living shit out of me. I'll let you know if I *ever* am able to beat this thing and win instead of just describing it.

Wow...I'm sorry, lookout. And laebedahs, and hemlock. I don't have anything to add, but you're in my thoughts. It's a spreading disease -- a friend of mine just moved out on his wife and kids after revealing that he's been sleeping with someone he met on a business trip for the last year.

what the hell is the matter with people? It's like an entire generation has decided that the only thing that matters in life is pleasing itself, and to hell with everyone else. We've created a booming market for "therapists" who charge exorbitant amounts of money to tell us how great we really are inside, and how we need to make ourselves happy and such, but personal responsibility has flown the coop.

For those of you who are being cheated on, you have my utmost sympathy and best wishes. For those of you who are cheating, and haven't told anyone, pull your effing head out of your ass before you destroy someone else's life. I know it doesn't seem like much compared to your genitals getting rubbed by someone other than your S.O., but really, monogamy isn't really all THAT bad.

Oh, and lookout? She's seeing someone. And you know it. [bitterness alert]the number of unabused, heterosexual women in this world who leave their spouses without having an alternate already waiting in the wings can be listed on a single sheet of paper.[/voice of experience] You'll get the truth out of her if you keep at it. Step one is to dry up the tears. She relishes the power she holds over you.

I gotta stop. I'm really sorry, guys (and/or women). No one deserves to get trampled like that.

lookout, i'm really sorry this is happening to you. i've been through a divorce and it wasn't pretty. no matter how bad things seem like they can't get worse, they can. not to be the pessimist here, but with the shit that i went through in the last 4 years has been, well, bleak. i CAN say that things do get better. hopefully you won't travel down the path that i did as well as others and things work out. your efforts to save your marriage are warranted here. no matter what, keep your chin up, stand tall, and be proud of who you are. NO ONE can take that from you.

Oh fuck! All I can say is it takes two to make a relationship so if she has decided to throw in the towel, you're better off getting used to the idea than trying to change her mind. If she is indecisive (and the willingness to go to counseling may show that) then fight your corner.
Good luck.

Well, half of all marriages end in divorce.

BUT

The other half end in death. :whofart:

Pollyanna. :p

My family has just endured a divorce, sounding similar to the one you say you are going through. The husband and wife team i would honestly have said were the most romantic and in love couple i have ever known.. so in love, always picnicing.. holding hands, just so sweet. Then one day he just left her for another woman. completely out of the blue.. and our whole family is still in shock.

I have now seen the wife go from being a strong, beautiful woman (someone who i held as a role model) to a twig thin, emotional wreck. she had pinned her hopes and dreams on this one man and he took it all away. It taught me never to let that happen to me, no matter what partnership your in you have to be true to yourself.. because you never know what is going to come around the corner.

Lookout i hope you stay healthy through all this.. it will be hard but i believe you are a fun, excitng, loving, talented and smart man.. and weather you work it out with your wife or not - you must stay true to who YOU are, and look after your health with utmost priority.

keep on truckin :)

We don't know that for certain. And maybe I'm just naive, too trusting, and just trying to hope not.

(On the other hand, when a break up is because of just one person, there's the chance that after a short time, they'll have to come to the realization that that other person is just another imperfect human being like the rest of us, and not some super special catch.)

A woman at work - 22 yrs old, a really cute, smart, outgoing, laughs a lot, likeable, hard working, very nice & pleasant lady - is married with two small children, both her and husband have good jobs, was looking pretty "down" last week. Turns out they're divorcing.
I was not expecting that - it actually gave me that "punch in the gut" like I felt when I read lookout's post. Having experienced that punch before yourself, you never quite forget it.

So what is the biggest disapointment for these married folks that think they want to bail? Life isn't an ABC soap opera - always surprises, living on the edge, and heart pumping passion ALL OF THE TIME!
And most of us are guilty of not trying harder to keep that fire going for our partner, but if we do put effort into it, you discover that it can keep getting better. Age has its advantages!
In real-life, Brett and I spend much more time talking than getting psychical. We talk about... everything, news, racing, theories we hear on TV - History Channel, Sci Fi, etc. or just talking about our lives before we met.
I'm afraid some of these poeple divorcing aren't looking at the big picture. The most compelling, ususally impulsive choice (made in the heat of passion!) isn't always the right one, and isn't always the decision that they'll end up wanting to live with.

(I sort of feel like we're talking about, but not to, lookout, while he's sitting here waving "Yo! I'm still here!"
Again - Good Luck Lookout. You know all of us just want to help - but at that time when there's nothing "right" we can say. Hang in there. please check in when you can.
Hugs to you, Jr and Mrs. L.

And another thing.

Take yourself out of the equation as to why this is happening. This is not your fault. Repeat: this is not your fault. She is making the decision to jump off the plane at 50,000 feet and it is she who, therefore, is responsible for the mess you now find yourself in. It is a popular defense to find some way to blame it on the other party just to transfer the guilt to them - don't fall for it. You did your share. You did your part. Her feelings changed.

Self-doubt will cripple you with guilt if you let it - don't. The only thing that's different now is how she feels. The only person responsible for the change is her. You have basically just been sucker-punched in broad daylight by a family member and should respond accordingly.

There will be a time for self-examination but not now.

Where did all this come from? My best buddy's wife was cheating on him for years. He was never unfaithful to her. Funny, up until the time he discovered the infidelity, he was "the best husband." But, from the time he found her out until the divorce was final, he was everything wrong in the book and it was his inadaquacies that "caused" her to stray. Rather than address her marital dissatisfaction while they were married, she She feigned happiness to cover her tracks. Meanwhile, she's seeing her very wealthy and very married boss.

She tried to transfer responsibility to him by bringing up every reason in the book - he doesn't make enough money, he isn't this, he isn't that, blah, blah, blah. He never understood why she never told him any of this during the 20 years they were married and raised two kids.

Losing his marriage and family was devastating enough. But the self-doubt she planted and watered almost daily nearly finished him off completely. Good thing he had lots of friends to set things back to right in his head.

People who cheat are traitors.
People who cheat while pretending to be happy in the relationship are a big step below traitors.
People who stab you in the back while smiling at you who then make you think it was all your fault are just slightly better people than child abusers.

Some marriages aren't meant to be and slowly dissolve. But its the ones that end "out-of-the-middle-of-nowhere" that have the biggest potential to be emotional death knells to the blindsided partner. If she was "fine until yesterday" then, as far as I'm concerned, you are off the hook responsibility-wise and should bear no guilt for what happened.

But, the attack is coming so get ready for it.

And when it does, we'll be right here to set things right.

She's got her Cosmo-readin', man-hatin', gum chewin, New Jersey accent spewin', dingbat friends of hers backin' her up but you [cracks knuckles] have the entire Cellar backin you up. Man, that just ain't fair. :)

B, I admire this post, good work by you.

Excellent. I had to read it more than once to fully absorb and appreciate it - it's just the best advice I've ever read. It sums up of the truth of the situation. Lookout - any time you start to wonder "What did I do? / didn't do?", STOP and re-read this post! Better yet, print it and carry it around.