That's not what I'm telling him. He has no clue that if he's lying he's out the door.

That's what he'll understand.

I think that 17 is too young to be pushing for an exclusive relationship. Once you're exclusive, there's only two ways to go - at some point you break up, or you're together forever. I think 17 is too young to be selecting your life partner.

That's why it should be picked by the family when they're 12, or before even.

Actually, I've always found that people in arranged marriages have a much healthier attitude about marriage than people who married for love. Everyone knows arranged marriages require work, but lots of couples in love think that marriage is as easy as love.

I'm not a big fan of love as a curative or a restorative. Its effects can be rather sporadic.

I don't see why. If it is dumb, how do you expect him to learn?

Yes and no, most go on to college and HS continues till 18 in australia where I finished my schooling. Personally I was young so I finished a bit before my 18th birthday.

No, not really, it alwasy worked on the priciple that they trusted me enough to know I wasn't going to do anything stupid and I didn't, fairly simple really. Who I happened to be seeing was my affair. Everyone I knew worked on a similar principle to varying degrees, parents knew the friend circle vaguely, good mates and anything that lasted a while but it stopped about there. I don't think it is a parental thing.

OC I actually agree with you to a point.

I see so many kids brought up in ill-prepared homes; parents either too young, too poor or too stupid. The children have the run of the house, they are bad-mannered, thoughtless and irresponsible. Of course, none of that really matters until they do something stupid: like commit a crime, or gleefully reproduce their useless selves by squirting up a pert young filly.

Now, who is responsible for these hormone fuelled atrocities? I for one, blame the parents. We are too afraid of discipline these days, and for those parents who are not blessed with perceptive, intelligent offspring (jag) - the little blighters need controlling. I know two parents whose 5 year old child is a nightmare - rude, screechy and utterly intolerable. The parents are very soft on her, and try to talk with her like an adult, and with respect. This doesn't work! Of course, in an ideal world we would all be having harmonious, thoughtful discourse with our children, but not all children are capable of such harmony, and parents that believe they should be treated with respect and beguiled with careful adult interaction, should at least be aware that often nothing but a jolly hard spank will suffice.

Now back to the teenage years and the matter of discipline is slightly more cumbersome, your child having formed his identity and become a 'young adult'. I am capable of rational thought and decision making, he says to himself, and who is this old battleaxe - whose life experience leaves much to be desired - to tell me what to do? (I know, I've been that kid) The worst thing you can do is tell him anything (it will alienate you, and significantly, it won't work). So, how best to control thy unwilling subject?

An authoritative stance, consistency and most importantly you have to get it right. It's no good being assertive and dominant if you're talking out your backside. The truth will make itself known in the end - and if it turns out you're right about this fretful little situation - your son will remember. (Many a time I've proverbially slapped myself when I come out of such a situation to realise at last what my mum had been trying to tell me for three long years).

Ultimately, you cannot change anyone, but you can certainly be there, quietly getting it right, and waiting for him to realise. This is the best thing you can do. I hope you do get it right. :)

Well, most of the problem has blown over.

I'm not pushing him to date exclusively, I'm just saying he can't act like he is with them until he is on an exclusive basis. I don't care if he sees a bunch of girls, but they won't be coming over and hanging on him and feeding him popcorn and laying thier head on his shoulder and all the rest of this crap until they are on a serious enough level that they are exclusive.

He went to Marcia's yesterday, had a good time, and I picked him up. They "didn't get a chance" to talk to her parents about their relationship, and I didn't say anything to him, but I wasn't happy about that. I kept my mouth shut and listened to how his time over there went.

So far, so good. I told him last week that I've never been the parent of a 17 year old before, this is my first time, and so if it seems like I'm making the rules up as I go along, it's because I am. I told him we'll deal with stuff as it comes. He seemed to think that reasonable.

oh I don't know, I do that stuff with friends, i think it is just cultural/what catwoman said.

So Marcia came over today. She has told her parents that she is dating Justin and all seems to be well now with them. He cooked Enchilada chicken, mashed potatos, homemade gravy, macaroni and cheese, and chili cheese tator tots.

We'll work on menus and nutrition :|

OC - i don't have a teenage child so i don't know what it is like to be in your shoes, but... what i can't figure out is why you care if they are exclusive or not? it seems your interest should be in the "i'm a parent - i'll do what i can to avoid being a grandparent" vein of things. whether she dates other guys or not is pretty irrelevant. if your son enjoys his time with her, she enjoys her time with him - your son is aware she dates other people and he is free to date other people... what is the problem? if this is indeed a non-sexual relationship there can be no negative effects other than a little broken heart - and let's face it - that is inevitable in a teen's first foray into "love".

i think by being so dictatorial on the exclusivity issue, you will only encourage him to hide things from you in the future.

hurt feelings and broken hearts are inevitable, no matter how you try to prevent them.

STD's and little Justin's are avoidable - if your child trusts you enough to listen to you and talk to you on those issues.

just my $.02 from the peanut gallery.

Because the way he felt about her, and the way she SAID she felt about him (and talking about naming babies).

I didn't want him being "the other man" in any relationship. It's not right. If it's ok now, it's ok in the future, and dating a woman who is in an "exclusive" arrangment with someone else is not a responsible thing to be doing.

I don't think I'm explaining it correctly (what's new)...

I guess I'm trying to teach him that there are certain levels of interaction that go with certain levels of committment.

This was the second (and third) step to that end.

Of course he's having sex with Marcia. And she's using it to keep control of him. Gonna be a sad thing, gonna end messily. Hopefully he doesn't get her pregnant -- she WILL get pregnant when plain old vanilla sex isn't working as a control mechanism anymore. And she'll play the two guys against each other and they'll go on Springer to find out who's the dad.

Even if she ends up happilyeverafter wedded to your son, what makes him think she's not going to cheat on him when he becomes boring? I'm sure she told her current may-un that she luvved him too. Southern women. gah. no offense. I've just dated my share.

I don't know when he could be having sex with her.

They don't go to the same school.

They live 5 miles away from each other.

There are adults all over the place at her house and mine.

When could they be having sex?