limey is an atheist, though limey probably already knew this. Also, limey probably have several people praying daily for limey's soul. Instead of simply being "nonreligious," atheists strongly believe in the lack of existence of a higher being, or God.

atheism, 88%; agnosticism, 75%; Paganism, 54% ; Islam, 54%; Buddhism, 50%; Hinduism, 46%; Satanism, 46%; Judaism, 38%; Christianity, 33%.

I'd probably have described myself as an agnostic, but I'm happy with this. Am I the only atheist here?

I tried being an athiest, but I couldn't believe in it.

I am often surprised by how few people realize this. Thank you, CW, you made my day.

Read "The Number of The Beast" by Heinlein.

Fictons, units of energy measuring imagination.

according to the test I am a Pagan. This is probably the closest to the truth.... :cool:

Bruce you have this knack of reading a post, getting it very wrong, and replying with some half-arsed sarcastic one-liner followed by a ubiquitous smilie.

What I said was, belief is a form in itself. I didn't say belief can manifest something tangible, just that belief is a form in itself.

Belief is a form in itself.

What I meant was, belief is a form in itself.

I wonder if he'll get it this time

This is a bullshit answer.

Therefore, if you can't see it, you don't believe it exists.
Now, I agree that what you believe has nothing to to with whether it exists or not.

We know gravity works, but we can't see it. We know all things are made of atoms and smaller particles, but without equipment, we can't see it. So even though we can't see it, we know they are there.

So I'll ask again. Do you believe in atoms? Gravity? microbes? You can't see them, therefore by your definition, you can't know they are there. Also, since you can't see it, you can't beleive it either.

So you don't know and you don't believe.

:rolleyes:

I don't think you'll ever understand what I'm trying to say, be it because of your silliness or my inability to communicate. Ah well. Time to seek out the place with only open, intelligent, like-minded people I always promised myself I would visit..... doh!

I think I understand what you've said:
(1) you don't believe what you can't see,
(2) you don't know what you can't see.

Therefore if it is not visible, it's not knowable or believable in your view.

that eliminates alot of options for you.

However, that does mean death does not exist for you either. You can see people die, but you can't see death itself.

You can't see logic, so that doesn't exist in your view either.

All the emotions are non existant for you.

You live in a completely different world than I do.

Um, you just restated what you had already said before she said you didn't understand...

If by "the place with only open, intelligent, like-minded people" you mean, "somewhere that no one will disagree with me", I wish you luck. Until you find it, you should stay here. The rest of us have to deal with people shooting down our beliefs and come up with a response - that's the whole fun of it.

I understand what you're trying to say. But contradicts In practical application, you live as you "believe" more often than you live as you "know." You bring a coat with you on a sunny day if you believe the weatherman when he says it's going to rain later. You don't "know" it's going to rain, but your belief might save you getting wet.

I don't 'believe' anything.

Obviously. Do you?

I'm not sure what planet you live on. This is really very simple. Where did you get the word 'visible' from? We could get into an old and repetitive argument about the nature of reality but really, what does it matter? You don't know anything, not for sure, and neither do I, so how can we talk about it?

??? Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

I should have just left it at HM's point.

I want people to disagree, if they think I'm wrong, but only for the sake of progress. Not if it means going over irrelevant, circular and downright stupid points just for the sake of stubbornness. Fair enough though, I need to learn how to communicate my ideas to people who can't immediately see them, I shouldn't be so intolerant.

The point about belief:

A thought is a 'thing'. Not tangible, perhaps, like a house or a mountain, but it is something nevertheless. Likewise, a 'belief', or an advanced and settled thought, is something. All I was saying is that a belief exists as a thing, and I'm suggesting it may not be too different or discernible from a physical form although we can't 'see' it.

I'm with you so far. What I'm missing is how you can say that belief is a real thing, but That's where you have me confused. If a belief is an "advanced and settled" thought, it can't be irrelevant. It's only irrelevant if it's some kind of random neural misfire based on bad information (which is what I got from your previous posts - that 'belief' in something is intellectual dishonesty).

No, belief may be real as a thing in itself, but this doesn't mean it relates accurately to the 'outside world'.

Um:

I'm not going to argue the semantics between "what I see" and "visible".

Obviously, we can't.