To what exactly are you referring when you use "gun"?

No matter how we handle Saddam, somebody's gonna get their panties in a wad about it.

Fuck it.

I say, give 'im to the Kurds. They'll know what to do.

It really doesn't matter! On the diplomatic stage, that was and remains the contention of the USA.

But if you want to extend the analogy, the bullets in the gun are WMD, the gun is the intent to use them.

Nobody disputes the fact that there was a gun, they only dispute that there were bullets. Last February Colin Powell described the bullet factories and we found them, and we have plenty of evidence of many more bullet factories since then. We just haven't found the actual cache of bullets.

Some feel the bullets might be in Syria, some people feel they are buried in the sand, and some people feel the bullets were just stories about bullets. I say, if there are bullet factories with trucks of lead and brass and gunpowder, that's proof enough for me, and I don't really need to see an actual bullet.

And frankly, a guy holding a gun is danger enough for me to take action. I don't really care if there are bullets in it.

What's your point? We have a shit-load of WMD pointed all over the fucking place. Does anyone come tell us to stop using them? What about the nifty new pox virus we've been working on? The one with 100% kill rate in mice. The one with 100% kill rate in cows? Oh, yeah, sure, that's just for defense, to prepare a cure. Bullshit. It's a weapon. But it's ok, because we're the US of A and we're always right.

America is so two-faced it's sickening.

And as for Saddam... he's fucked. Everyone knows it. To pharaphrase my SO, never ever be considered useful to the USA. They'll stab you in the back when they decide you're no longer useful.

Quzah.

My problem with this is that how the US moves on other countries that are a threat tends not to make sense. Okay, so there might be WMD in Iraq, but the threat of it was so miniscule that we can't even find any WMD or even a trace. Yet, at the same time, we have a country working feverishly to build ICBMs, has threatened us with nukes, and has even launched missiles over Japan to prove that they are a big threat to the world.

Which country to we take issue with? The one where we can find a man hidden in a hole in a ground, but can't find biological or chemical weapons residue.

I do, UT, agree with what you say regarding the UN. They're usually so slow that more people end up suffering while we wait for negotiations.

Well, yeah. Get yourself a couple plane tickets to your utopia and put your stuff in a shipping container.

Nobody's making you stay in a country you clearly dislike.

Live with it, work to change it, or move on.

That's true Kitsune... NK might even be a worse problem. And it's definitely a worse humanitarian disaster. And there are still other worse hellholes and dictators.

Yeah, I'm actually growing really concerned about NK.

I *think* the only reason we're staying off of them is because China and other surrounding countries seem to be enough of a deterrant to them to prevent them from hitting the button. The only problem is that if it stays that way, North Korea just keeps getting more technology and more power as everyone waits it out.

I think part of the reason that we don't go after North Korea is b/c we don't quite know what to expect from them. We had a pretty good idea of what to expect out of Iraq, but North Korea is like a mystery package.

I agree with Kitsune...who was more of a threat? And maybe I was just living under a rock, but that evidence presented by the US regarding Iraq didn't look very convincing to me. I'm not sure there really was any gunpowder around.

And is there something wrong with complaining about our country? After all, if we don't complain about the problems, we could very well become oblivious to them.

Complain all the heck you want. You can, you know ... that's all part of the "it's a free country" thing, that people take for granted. It's when people express outright hate for their country of origin and/or residence, that I get cranky over it.

I wouldn't consider Quzah's comments as outright hate, here or overall on the Cellar. I just think he's a bit more pessimistic and vocal than most of us on the subject.

But hell, let's ask him.

Quzah, overall, how do you feel about the United States?

More Lieberman from Meet The Press:

Ouch, that's gotta hurt!

Enlighten me, UT...this is supposed to hurt Dean? It sounds to me like Lieberman is desperate to inject some energy into his campaign, so he does what he's done best recently: attack Howard Dean.

Oh, I see, "Live with it" is your way of saying shut up, you don't get an opintion?
Second, if America can't even have its presidential ellections held accurately, *I* am supposed to change it on my own? Riiiight. The entire state of Florida couldn't change it. Magicly I myself can?

Quzah.

Let me shatter your illusions and put it out there nice and clear for you: North Korea has no oil.

Quzah.