UT, don't you think the government's reaction, or over reaction in this case, is what really affects the economy? People see this conflict going on and entrench, which effectively kills productivity.

     Wouldn't running down your future workforce with a tank be inherently counterproductive? Also a fairly large number of skilled people seem to have chosen to leave China. Losing people that way would also be bad for China's economy.
     Of course, like Bruce mentioned, this isn't "the movement" hurting the economy, it's the response to said movement.

Yes, that's true Bruce -- I didn't tconsider it that way -- although the shutdown comes from the top, not from the bottom where wealth is actually produced, so it's not the protest itself which is the problem. There is protest in every rich nation; protest is healthy and maybe even invigorating to free countries. It's heartily welcomed by the media, and sometimes even the targets of the protest.

Collectivism and individualism
 

In tradition idea we heavily look up on collectivism and down on individualism. Most time we require that individual must follow the collectivity. In old state compnies you get the same salary whatever you do well or bad. You cna not do what you like and have to do what headers arrange. So the people have no motivity to improve products and modify equipments. The enterprises have no competility day by day. Now the reform and open policy activates people to inspire people to improve quality. So the companies and country encourage people innovation. We recognize that individualism and freedom is also imporant. We can not give people no freedom to select what they like. We use the west style to manage enterprises and encourage individual freedom with the collectivism.

Agreed. That's what I was Trying to say. It's not the protest but the over reaction of the government that really causes the problem.

Billy, we in the west are always impatient.;)
It looks to me like the Chinese have learned from the failure of the Soviet Union. The Soviets refused to embrace change and ended up in chaos.
The Chinese seem to be embracing change. Allowing the people that want to be entrepreneurial to do so, while maintaining the system to keep the rest employed.
This should teach and inspire more people to the possibilities of capitalism and cause a positive shift in the economy.
Our problem with China has always been their desire to export communism. With Chinas' move toward capitalism and our move toward socialism (homeland security) we should not have future problems.
And I'm pretty good with chopsticks.:D

We cannot export communism
 

You are kiding. We can not export communism. The ideology is communicated by idea, not by products. As you know, China have advanced communism ideologists who can have a wide influence in the world. So the wets people cannnot receive communism only by speed economy progress. South Korea and Singapore are capitalism. They have no influence by China. I am not sure if China come into capitalism. Many overseas Chinese students come back China. They like the west styles and ideas. They bring them to Chinese. We like them. I am afraid that we would become "west" one day.

Unimagine to use chopsticks for me. You are a cool man( I don't know if you are male,sorry). It is very difficult to learn to use them. We think that the chopsticks can help young children improve intelligence because using them make their hands agile.

Re: We cannot export communism
 

And that's exactly how it can be exported. No, it's not a tangible product, but if you send troops, money, and advisors in the quest to push communism, then it becomes an "export" of sorts. To help you understand it better, let's put it this way: The United States is exporting democracy to Iraq right now.

Yeah. What he said. Thanks Syc.

Oh, and yes, male. That's why I asked about the unmarried sister. Remember?:D

Re: We cannot export communism
 

:D

I also have a great deal of skill with chopsticks, and actually am able to eat a lot of Chinese/Asian foods more skillfully with them than a fork — especially rice and noodles ... they fall off a fork, but chopsticks grab them up JUST right. Yeah, I'm weird and I know it. It's interesting that something that is in America so identified as being part of Chinese cooking and culture are not so widely used in China, but I suspect that has much to do with the push toward modernization in some way.

     Hey, Bruce? Are you sure the whole Homeland Security thing brings us closer to socialism as opposed to fascism?
     My kids and I are all good with chopsticks. In fact, I remember the my daughter and I going for seconds and returning to find a cute Asian waitress teaching the boy (8 at the time) to use chopsticks. The funny part is he'd been proficient with them for almost two years. The little flirt...

Re: Re: We cannot export communism
 

You're weird.


Billy: Do you feel that the Chinese leadership values communism, or that they lean more towards capitalism and pretend to be communist?

:) thank you for the vote of confidence!

China has no capability to do it now
 

China has no enough capability to export communism as you said. the main task for china is economy development and life progress. We would draw Taiwan back if we could. Taiwan is one our heart wound. I think that the USA would become the Second "British Empire". No one country can stop it now.

The confused leaders
 

It is a super good problem for me.

To be frank, the headers are not clear on communism. We are all studying it in pratices. Now in China we lack the big communismi deologists and theorists to point way to us. There is no second Max now. We call up one.

In the economy policy we use some west styles. But I think it can not completely change communism. The west styles help us to improve economy progress. I don't know if the communism has tomorrow. It is very difficult to predict it.

Re: China has no capability to do it now
 

I don't think it's really an issue of capability. I think it's more an issue of not wanting to anger the United States.

I see our relationship with China as delicate. We don't want to upset you guys (hence why the Bush administration was very cautious with the spy plane situation 2 years ago), and you don't want to upset us (hence why China has not taken back Taiwan yet). It has grown to be a warmer relationship over the years, but it is still very fragile.