The money will always decide.

Who's money? What do you mean?



Who's or Whose? I'm confused.
I think it is whose

Heh, I'm not asking "who is money".

Whose money. I'm trying to get back to my point...since the health care debate started in full force, I've heard a lot about using "our" money (presumably taxpayers) to help people who are just druggies, or alkies, or a slew of other "bad choices." The thought seems to be that "we" shouldn't help those who made a bad choice.

So, questions:

Who draws the line?
Who makes the decision?
Is the money part of doing business, if one likens a national economy to business, aren't there costs that aren't considered typically in the cost of doing business, at least not on a big level, losses the company is willing to take as "cost of doing business" and in deference to the greater good of the action?
Is the greater good unattainable because we are too afraid someone who made a bad choice might get some help?
Is there a statue of limitations on bad choices?
Do you and I and marcia and greg and johnny and billy all agree on what is a bad choice?

So, who decides?

circular argument I think.

The people in charge of/with the money decide.

It would work in the fashion as almost any political decision. Special interests groups play tug a war with the government being the rope while the majority of people stand back and watch.

No reason to draw any line. Those who make bad choices die earlier. Put less stain on the system. The most expensive people are the healthy people who life on and on and on. Who slowly degrade. I have seen numbers that put the cost of this category as high as 50% of insurance costs.

Insurance means covering everyone. That is what insurance is about when the purpose of insurance is more important than profits. By not having insurance, we are simply dumping the 'stresses' on other parts of the economy - ie through bankruptcies, hospitals (especially children's hospitals) covering the costs that customers cannot pay for, and long term harm to kids because the most stressed families cannot get insurance.

One part of the economy that gets stuck for the bills if we do not change the system - government. Those costs exist no matter who does and does not pay. The idea of insurance is to stabilize what is now an economically and socially destructive way of paying for those costs.

Why are these costs dumped on government? Because we have no working health insurance system. And because the existing system is so beneficial to the upper 50% at the expense or the lower 50%. A large number of that lower 50% are children.

Thanks tw...that was an awesome post.

Odds are it varies by state but most low income, made poor choices and are ill from them people, qualify for medicad...the low income fed program adminstered by the states.

Welcome to the Cellar, Bluesky. :D

And the people who aren't low income try to hide the bad choices as long as they can.

As I keep reiterating, It is extremely difficult for someone who is an alkie/drug user to get government aid - at least in Colorado. If your records show a history of alcohol or drug use, too bad for you. Some do start heavy drinking after they get the aid, but as Bruce pointed out, they die quick. There just aren't that many 70 year old meth freaks out there.

Thanks for the welcome :)

So a mentally ill 18 yr old, who takes illegal drugs doesn't get a psych eval and end up labeled disabled due to say bipolar or schizophrenia in Colorado?

Or do you mean just a welfare, not disabled, type hand out from the gov?

I think if you should get a clean drug screen to get any kind of handout, other than treatment.

No, no, no. A person cannot end up labeled disabled without extensive testing and two or three doctor's evaluations. Its really not that simple. Now a person may get labeled schizophrenic and ultimately go off his meds. This is almost always a tragedy as the person often becomes completely non functional - sleeps in the park, gets his money stolen, etc. Some schizophrenics do self medicate with illegal drugs, but illicit drug use is not their primary diagnosis. The plight of many schizophrenics is indeed tragic. I can see that you have a heart as big as an olive pit. :mad:

What? How can you say that? Thats way too invasive on their privacy. :right:

Will that drug screen include alcohol?

Or caffiene or sugar?