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-   -   What to believe (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=22076)

morethanpretty 02-24-2010 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yznhymr (Post 636346)
Do you have faith your fat ass wont fall to the floor when you sit in a chair? Then start there...oh, Buddha had a fat ass and he only sits on the ground.

nope, i have previous experience that it will not. called observation and evidence. not faith.

Happy Monkey 02-24-2010 04:51 PM

Plus, if a chair does collapse, there's no faith pushing me to insist that it didn't. And the new evidence may aid in recognizing other chairs that may not be stable.

morethanpretty 02-28-2010 11:57 AM

This is a bit of thread drift...
I had a dream last night that my mom was holding me under the water and hitting my back so that I could not hold in air. She wasn't trying to drown me, she was insisting that if I just "believed" that I could breath, that I could. She was telling me to lie to myself, that I can trick my mind into believing I can breath underwater if I just kept lying to myself and telling me that I could. Then I would actually be able to breath.

I'm mentioning this because that is how I feel about faith. People are just lying to themselves that something is true for so long that they believe it. Doesn't actually make it true.

xoxoxoBruce 02-28-2010 06:09 PM

And your nightmares doesn't make it untrue.

Happy Monkey 03-01-2010 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morethanpretty (Post 638179)
I'm mentioning this because that is how I feel about faith. People are just lying to themselves that something is true for so long that they believe it. Doesn't actually make it true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Twain
Faith is believing what you know ain't so.


Pie 03-01-2010 03:09 PM

My father kept a copy of "The God Delusion" next to his hospital bed during his transplant. It kept the chaplain away.

squirell nutkin 03-03-2010 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yznhymr (Post 636346)
Do you have faith your fat ass wont fall to the floor when you sit in a chair? Then start there...oh, Buddha had a fat ass and he only sits on the ground.

Not sure of the connection there, but Buddhism isn't about faith as much as it is about personal verification. See for yourself if your fat ass falls to the ground or if the chair supports it. Don't take my word for it, my word is useless. You need to know for yourself.

Crotalushorridus 03-04-2010 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 634240)
The Buddha promotes critical thinking:

http://cellar.org/2010/donotbelieve.jpg

regardless of this quotation, Buddhism is not a belief that hinges upon rationality or reason or empiricism at all. Notice in the last few lines how the basis of one's actions becomes dependent upon whether or not that action is good or not? This is no longer a basis on reason alone, but now it encompasses emotions and feelings of the good....which leads us back to our original problem of which the quote attempts but fails to find a solution: how should I act to maximize my potential and good?

xoxoxoBruce 03-04-2010 01:37 PM

Quote:

...that agrees with reason AND is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all...
Two subjective decisions, eh?;)

squirell nutkin 03-06-2010 08:51 AM

There are people who spend their entire lives contemplating and practicing and meditating and studying this and other religions. I doubt there is much value in forming an opinion based on reading a short, possibly poorly translated, supposedly quoted paragraph in an online forum where you are logged out if you touch the monkey.

All of our informed opinions, together based on a hour (I'm making a highly generous guess) spent considering this passage against millions of monks and lay people practicing this religion for 2500 years seem to be slightly wanting.

And the passage quoted is not the definition of Buddhism.

squirell nutkin 03-06-2010 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalushorridus (Post 639071)
leads us back to our original problem of which the quote attempts but fails to find a solution: how should I act to maximize my potential and good?

The problem with that question is that there is never a single answer that is right in every single case. In fact, depending on circumstances, two different cases may require entirely opposite solutions.

Read up on "The Five Ranks of Master Tozan" where this is discussed at length.

monster 03-09-2010 09:40 PM

If you are late because you were doing a good deed, the traffic lights will turn green as you approach.

That is what to believe.

If it was a selfless good deed, the hobo might not step out in front of you as you accelerate.

Yznhymr 03-09-2010 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin (Post 638901)
Not sure of the connection there, but Buddhism isn't about faith as much as it is about personal verification. See for yourself if your fat ass falls to the ground or if the chair supports it. Don't take my word for it, my word is useless. You need to know for yourself.

You have done well Grasshopper! Saddha is often contradictory and confusing to me. Just search on this term and see what is says about faith.

Also I have heard that "seeking the truth" is a key point in Buddhism. My problem is the truth I may find is not the truth someone else may find. Therefore, it really isn't truth.

I love this question: Do you believe that what you believe is really real?

The best thing I have learned from Buddhism is mindfulness. I've missed out on this most of my life. Wished I had understood this many many moons ago.

lumberjim 03-09-2010 11:55 PM

thoughts distract you from the purity of being

be, do not think to be.

Yznhymr 03-10-2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 639937)
thoughts distract you from the purity of being

be, do not think to be.

:D


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