Non-hormonal IUD for 23 years (excepting the times when pregnancy an ok outcome or pregnant). It has to be the way, folks. Was very surprised to move here and find out how uncommon/unpopular it is

I think people here are still scared of IUDs because of the Dalkon Shield and because of increased bleeding.

Well then, that's something to work on. that's 35 years ago ffs.

Oh and to answer your question. When they tell you they need it which will be when they're thinking about becoming sexualy active because you've created safe and open environment in which they feel they can discuss these things with you without fear of punishment, disapproval or whatever.....

the perfect world solution

Weeeell....doesn't always work like that. I was raised very much without a 'punishment model'. Sex wasn't a matter for disapproval either. The closest I came to that was Dad asking me if I intended to 'go out wearing that?' when i had on something outrageous: my answer 'yes' was fine and no more was said.

I never talked about sex with mum. She'd try from time to time, but I found it excruciatingly embarrassing. There is no way I'd have told my mum I was about to be sexually active. I kept it entirely secret. It was only when my first 'relationship' crashed and burned that she realised I was sleeping with the lad.

Teens can develop a bunch of embarrassment and secrecy no matter how understanding and open the parenting is.

right. looks like I needed a TIC smiley :rolleyes: ....of course it doesn't always work like that, but wouldn't it be nice if it did?

Would just like to reiterate that I was not making a connection between free contraception and high teen pregnancy.

Other countries in Europe (which we are measured against) also have free contraception. The difference is in attitude both to education, about and from families and to general levels of poverty.

I went to good schools. In my middle school I learned human reproductive biology from the age of 11. We had focus chat groups with our teacher and the local priest (Catholic school). These were about what is now called abstention, but did include info about STDs and contraception.

From 12 onwards I was at Grammar school (school you have to pass a test to get into). We had sex pushed down our throats til we were sick of it. Sorry, I mean sex education til it was boring. Biology, Social Studies, various assemblies, religious studies, blah, blah, blah. Any girl who had sex unprotected was a silly cow who got what she deserved.

I've said before - I did.
Didn't get pregnant. But shows that even an aware and intelligent girl thinks she's immune. The curse of the teenager. There are schoolgirls out there that want to get pregnant. If we can only help prevent those that don't, and do so by accident, at least it will help.

I've no idea how to do it, given I had an excellent education and chanced becoming a statistic myself. Which is why I advocate enforced contraception. I'd even advocate enforced termination for girls under 16, but I know that would be even harder to enforce than contraception and might even lead to me being lynching even making the suggestion.

I know you weren't. But Classic was inferring there may be a connection.

Admittedly I don't have the perspective that the women posting in this thread have. I'm a 42 year old dude with a 21 year old and 14 year old boys. This is what I tell the young men. Sex makes kids, when you are ready to take on the responsibility of providing everything for a little human being, then you can have sex. The single best tested way to not have children, is to not have sex. Now, there is contraception, nothing is 100%. Because I can't lock you under the stairs for the rest of your life, nor do I want to, you get to decide. So far, so good. I don't have any grandkids yet.

Now, when did it become a bad thing for people to have kids at any age?

It's a bad thing to have kids and not take responsibility for your progeny, at any age. And, teens are not the most responsible demographic, I think Socrates complained about the youth in his day. I for one, will not approach this subject from a position that having children is a life ending affair. Having children is a life fulfilling affair. This is what I want my boys to know. Having them, being their father, has helped my life to be full and wonderful in more ways then I can count. Yes, challenging as well. It's a package deal.

So to bring this all together, I've taken longer then I expected with this one, we shouldn't teach our children that sex is a casual thing to be taken lightly. Yet, we do in so many ways teach them this. I do believe that this is tied up in your question, should we give young girls birth control.

How about this. Girls can begin menstruation between 8 and 16 years of age, most likely though between 11 and 16. Should girls and boys between 11 and 16 years be having sex? I think the answer on many levels is: No....but I should be giving them birth control and contraception? Then the answer is yes.

Of course having a child is not a 'life-ending affair'! Quite the opposite: contraception is biologically difficult because we need to insure future fertility is unaffected.

Actually, Joe raises an interesting point. We've been talking about teenage pregnancy (or more specifically teenage conception) as a problem. As a statistical phenomenon it certainly is problematic. At an individual level, it may or may not be problematic. There are many older parents who simply aren;t cut out to raise children. By the same token there are also teenagers who do a damn fine job of raising healthy happy and loved offspring. For some teens getting pregnant/getting a girl pregnant is a catastrophic event. For others it is a life affirming and enriching experience.

Which is one reason i don't believe in mandating contraception in the way Sundae suggests. I know of girls who wanted to get pregnant by the time they were 15. Sure, that may have been because they were missing unconditional love in their lives (or felt they were) and wanted someone truly theirs; but at least one of them (an old schoolfriend) did get pregnant and frankly blossomed. It gave her life meaning and she hit her schoolwork with a vigour she'd never had before, taking a brief break from her GCSEs to have the baby and, with the help of her mum, attending sixth form college three days a week to get her a-levels. She was a brilliant mum. She went on to have a further two children. By the time they were at an age to need less parenting, she was still young enough to have a career change and go into nursing. Having been a kid with very little confidence, she 'found herself' as a mother.

You know what I wish they'd do? Create PSAs encouraging adoption. Basic clips showing the kind of mature, financially stable, married couples who are on waiting lists for years to be selected by a birth mother to adopt a newborn baby. There's this cultural assumption that it's either abortion or raise the baby yourself, because "giving up" the baby is somehow a terrible thing, even if the birth mother knows she doesn't really want the baby.

Just asking a question - there seems to be potential for a correlation. Perhaps we should spend millions on a study.

Well. My cousin's lass got pregnant when they were both 16. She was counselled to give it up for adoption and that's what she did. She didn't really want to raise a baby. They both felt too young and unequipped. Both had plans for their futures (she wanted to go to art college, he wanted to be a professional tennis player). The emotional impact didn't really hit her fully until a couple of years later (beyond the obvious pain of the initial moment of giving him up, which was fucking horrendous) It still hits her on a fairly regular basis. They now have three children (yes they stayed together apart from a brief hiatus in their early 20s). She still occasionally cries for her lost son. She has had to seek counselling in later life to deal with the torrent of emotion and guilt she still feels.

No, the options aren't just raise it or abort it. But the emotional impact of adoption can be massive and damaging. She now believes she was badly advised and wishes she'd kept the baby and raised him herself.

My bad. The manner in whch the question was raised seemed to suggest that you believed there may be a correlation. I do not believe there is any correlation whatsoever. We should definately spend millions.