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-   -   Carter: America tortures (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=15615)

Aliantha 10-15-2007 05:37 PM

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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
tor·ture /ˈtɔrtʃər/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tawr-cher] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
–noun 1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
2. a method of inflicting such pain.
3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.
–verb (used with object) 6. to subject to torture.
7. to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.
8. to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!
9. to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.
10. to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).


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[Origin: 1530–40; < LL tortūra a twisting, torment, torture. See tort, -ure]

—Related forms
tor·tur·a·ble, adjective
tor·tured·ly, adverb
tor·tur·er, noun
tor·ture·some, adjective
tor·tur·ing·ly, adverb


—Synonyms 6. See torment.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This tor·ture (tôr'chər) Pronunciation Key
n.

Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.
Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
Something causing severe pain or anguish.

tr.v. tor·tured, tor·tur·ing, tor·tures

To subject (a person or an animal) to torture.
To bring great physical or mental pain upon (another). See Synonyms at afflict.
To twist or turn abnormally; distort: torture a rule to make it fit a case.


[Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin tortūra, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquēre, to twist; see terkw- in Indo-European roots.]

tor'tur·er n.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
torture (n.)

c.1495 (implied in torturous), from M.Fr. torture "infliction of great pain, great pain, agony," from L.L. torture "a twisting, writhing, torture, torment," from stem of L. torquere "to twist, turn, wind, wring, distort" (see thwart). The verb is 1588, from the noun. Tortuous "full of twists" is recorded from 1426.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This torture

noun
1. extreme mental distress [syn: anguish]
2. unbearable physical pain
3. intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain; "an agony of doubt"; "the torments of the damned" [syn: agony]
4. the act of distorting something so it seems to mean something it was not intended to mean [syn: distortion]
5. the deliberate, systematic, or wanton infliction of physical or mental suffering by one or more persons in an attempt to force another person to yield information or to make a confession or for any other reason; "it required unnatural torturing to extract a confession"

verb
1. torment emotionally or mentally [syn: torment]
2. subject to torture; "The sinners will be tormented in Hell, according to the Bible"

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source - Share This
torture [ˈtoːtʃə] verb

to treat (someone) cruelly or painfully, as a punishment, or in order to make him/her confess something, give information etc
Example: He tortured his prisoners; She was tortured by rheumatism/jealousy.

Aliantha 10-15-2007 05:38 PM

All examples fairly clearly state that the definition of torture includes mental pain or anguish.

How do you like them semantics?

Happy Monkey 10-15-2007 05:49 PM

And none of them includes the phrases "organ failure" or "shock the conscience", as per the Bush administration's redefinitions.

Undertoad 10-15-2007 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 395434)
Only because it's us saying it's not. Before we were doing it we agreed that it was. That's why the Bush administration had to issue new definitions of torture.

You can't think of any other reason why we might revisit the official definitions, other than there was a new administration?

Undertoad 10-15-2007 05:53 PM

Quote:

Relying on a Supreme Court finding that only conduct that “shocks the conscience” was unconstitutional, the opinion found that in some circumstances not even waterboarding was necessarily cruel, inhuman or degrading, if, for example, a suspect was believed to possess crucial intelligence about a planned terrorist attack, the officials familiar with the legal finding said.
If you have a suspect that's believed to possess crucial intelligence about a planned terrorist attack, do you waterboard him? What if his psych profile indicates that's the only way to get that information out of him in 24 hours?

Happy Monkey 10-15-2007 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 395445)
You can't think of any other reason why we might revisit the official definitions, other than there was a new administration?

Because we want do do something that was previously considered torture, or because we've already started doing something that was previously considered torture. Those are the two possibilities that I see.

Aliantha 10-15-2007 05:58 PM

This thread is torture. I'm suffering severe mental anguish just reading it. :alien:

deadbeater 10-15-2007 06:03 PM

That's a sure sign that the right wing is winning the war on torture, to see even poor Aliantha tortured like this.

Aliantha 10-15-2007 06:16 PM

I thought it was a war on terror? Oh hang on, it's about freeing Iraq. Oh no wait, we're still looking for that slippery little sucker Bin Laden.

Gosh, I'm so confused. I think I'll go have a tim tam!

Undertoad 10-15-2007 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey (Post 395447)
Because we want do do something that was previously considered torture, or because we've already started doing something that was previously considered torture. Those are the two possibilities that I see.

As of 9/11, everything changed. We face a newly exposed enemy that has a quite different nature than any we've encountered before, requiring a different type of war.

The previous rules were set up for an enemy that didn't routinely use torture because we didn't want it used against us, and we wanted the strongest possible definition. The new reality is based on an enemy that routinely beheads people for their recruitment videos. There's no question that they'd torture, and our rules are not something they pay attention to.

Kitsune 10-15-2007 06:30 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha (Post 395459)
Gosh, I'm so confused. I think I'll go have a tim tam!


Just one?

Aliantha 10-15-2007 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 395462)
As of 9/11, everything changed. We face a newly exposed enemy that has a quite different nature than any we've encountered before, requiring a different type of war.

The previous rules were set up for an enemy that didn't routinely use torture because we didn't want it used against us, and we wanted the strongest possible definition. The new reality is based on an enemy that routinely beheads people for their recruitment videos. There's no question that they'd torture, and our rules are not something they pay attention to.


If they don't pay attention to our rules, why bother to change them then? Isn't that in effect giving them the power because we're obviously paying more attention to their rules.

Kitsune 10-15-2007 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 395462)
As of 9/11, everything changed.

...

The previous rules were set up for an enemy that didn't routinely use torture because we didn't want it used against us, and we wanted the strongest possible definition. The new reality is based on an enemy that routinely beheads people for their recruitment videos. There's no question that they'd torture, and our rules are not something they pay attention to.

Your reading of pre-9/11 wars must have been a lot less descriptive than mine. Vietnam and World War II, specifically.

Every war since the dawn of man has had this "new reality" and every culture in which torture has played a part in war found it fully justified. This time is no different, except that many in the US are turning a blind eye to the benefits history provides.

"The major means of getting intelligence was to extract information by interrogating prisoners. Torture was an unavoidable necessity. Murdering and burying them follows naturally. You do it so you won't be found out. I believed and acted this way because I was convinced of what I was doing. We carried out our duty as instructed by our masters. We did it for the sake of our country. From our filial obligation to our ancestors. On the battlefield, we never really considered the Chinese humans." -Uno Shintaro, former Japanese officer

Undertoad 10-15-2007 07:08 PM

The rules were written for the cold war.

Happy Monkey 10-16-2007 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 395462)
As of 9/11, everything changed.

Not everything. Torture is still wrong.
Quote:

We face a newly exposed enemy that has a quite different nature than any we've encountered before, requiring a different type of war.
The nature of the enemy is irrelevant. Torture is about the nature of ourselves. If that changed after 9-11, then we need to change it back.


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