Yeah, I'll buy that. Our operatives have been out there doing their thing since forever. Whether the Patriot Act helped them in any significant way is dubious.

It was not meant to be a "propaganda-level idea", it was a simple comment that I bet elements of the Act assisted us in catching these would be terrorists. Both you and the "teen" responded in similar manner, with emotional outburst due to your hatred of the Act and all things "Bush".

I was wondering which of The Cellar's wacko extremists would hype this NYC bombing plot. Just like a plot to bring down Chicago's Sears Tower - they had no explosive, they had no technical knowledge, then had no ability, but they just talked alot.

Let's see. They were going to bomb a 40 mile pipeline. Therefore wackos among us know this would be a fire in 40 miles of towns and cities. Hell. One of those Buckeye Partner pipelines are near me. Therefore I too can destroy America by simply causing the entire pipeline to explode end to end.

And then we deal with reality. The most destructive thing I might do is steal some petroleum. TheMercenary cannot even put that mythical attack into perspective.

Meanwhile TheMercenary forgets that conventional law enforcement before 11 September was more than sufficient to stop terrorist attacks that included a possible attack on New Years Eve Time Square, the Radisson Hotel in Jordan, tourists in Egypt, and LAX in California. Why? Because we once had an intelligent president.

Why do we need Patriot Acts? Because wacko extremists in the White House are so incompetent as to even make 11 September possible – and then blame it on Saddam.

Because he promotes hate using his political agenda, TheMercenary even denies George Jr administration stifled investigations that could have stopped 11 September. FBI agents in AZ, MN, IL, and NY were stopped from investigating what we know call 11 September ... by the George Jr administration. We also know they stifled and drove from government service this nation's number one anti-terrorist investigator. John O'Neill died where he knew attacks would be coming - WTC.

TheMercenary must deny this reality to promote his wacko political agenda – a fear of fools who could only talk about terrorism. Why is their talk hyped as if the world is going to end? Look at the George Jr popularity polls. They can no long create Orange Alerts to increase popularity. All those Orange alerts were also based in myths.

Why did John O'Neill take a job where he knew attacks were coming? That's irrelevant. Why did an extremist administration who insisted we were still in a Cold War then stifle John O'Neills investigations? Why do wackos like TheMercenary deny George Jr's administration stifled all those investigations - then must to subvert freedom to 'fight terror’?

When do we go after bin Laden? As long as bin Laden runs free, then wackos like TheMercenary can hype fear from simple fools who make the Keystone Cops look competent.

Let's see. Some pizza shop workers and friends talk about attacking Fort Dix. Suddenly the world was on the verge of ending? Or these extremist had the same competence as Richard Reed who could not give himself a hot foot.

Fortunately for terrorists, we have George Jr as a leader and TheMercenary promoting for that mental midget. Those attacks on JFK did not even have the competence of Richard Reed. But those among us who cannot put the world into perspective now see Al Qaeda hiding everywhere. Who promotes such ridiculous fears? TheMercenary - another extremist.

Extremists need extremists. When did TheMercenary ever call for the capture of bin Laden? He never did. As long as bin Laden runs free, then TheMercenary's political agenda can be promoted. No wonder George Jr suspended Alec Station. Alec Station had only one purpose - get bin Laden. But extremists need extremists to promote their political agendas. Therefore George Jr had that operation terminated.

Notice TheMercenary does not complain. As long as bin Laden runs free, then TheMercenary can promote his political agenda. Notice that TheMercenary does not complain when Alec Station was disbanded. TheMercenary need extremists like bin Laden and fools who would bomb the Sear Tower or attack Ft Dix. It justifies the fear that TheMercenary promotes.

Only a wacko extremist believes those JFK ‘attackers’ were anything but one step above fools. Only wacko extremists would hype those JFK ‘attackers’ to promote fear. Only wacko extremists also blames Saddam for 11 September. Wacko extremists such as George Jr and TheMercenary need bin Laden running free. No wonder 10th Mountain was never permitted to go after bin Laden.

I fail to see any irrelevant emotion in my reply. It's a bunch of crazies sitting around in a basement saying "man... I wish we had like, bombs or something, and like, a way to blow up those tanks, man!" The plot was doomed from the start. The tanks could not possibly create a chain reaction, and they really probably couldnt even blow one tank, anyway.

Fuel tanks have exploded before, all on their own. It's not fun, but its not "One of the most chilling [plots] imaginable". The rest really is just overhyped fearmongering idiotic bullshit.

Pssst... tw. It ain't about me. It is about attempts to thwart attacks on the US. They did that. Good plans or bad plans.

Bullshit. Ibram and I drew our conclusions from the New York Times article that you linked. I referenced the Patriot Act because you brought it up in your initial post which is itself interesting since it had nothing whatsoever to do with this story.

You are right about my attitude about the Patriot Act. But I don't hate Bush. He's giving us his best effort. Unfortunately for us, however, his best effort sucks.

Not Bullshit. I watched Assistant FBI Director be interviewed today (a repeat of a broadcast from Wed) by two reporters in a moderated interview. In fact the elements of The Patriot Act were utilized in nearly every investigation of attempted terror acts on the US since it was inacted. Time will tell. It is still early.

Informant Plays Key Role in JFK Plot

A convicted drug dealer who agreed to pose as a wannabe terrorist among a shadowy group now accused of plotting to blow up John F. Kennedy International Airport secretly fed information to federal investigators in exchange for a lighter sentence.

His surveillance trips to the airport with the suspects, travels abroad to meet with supporters and assurances he wanted to die as a martyr in an attack on an underground jet fuel pipeline gave counterterrorism agents insight and evidence that experts say was otherwise unattainable.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3240492

See? Not patriot act after all - just the same kind of good ol' fashioned police work thats served us pretty good up till now.

This story only made the news for about 1 day over here.

If there were really anything substantial in it, I think we'd be hearing a lot more about it.

Exactly. Its not like we were defenseless lambs curled up in the fetal position for the 230+ years prior to the Patriot Act.

There isn't a police commissioner in America that would prefer not to have to secure a warrant prior to conducting a search or who wouldn't prefer holding a suspect for months and years without legal representation or without filing any charges against him.

This is America not Spain during the Holy Inquisition. At least to everyone outside the beltway.

A lot of this "police work" went on in South America.

And still has nothing to do with the Patriot act. We've been legally spying on terror suspects for a long time before the Patriot act....

The very last thing I would expect to hear from law enforcement or a spy agency is: "Well, we paid off some international arms dealers with federal tax dollars and they sang like canaries so no, Mister Reporter, the Patriot Act was not instrumental in preventing the terrorist act."

No, they are going to tie it in to everything so they don't lose it. That's my problem with it. There is no check on its power. No one in government doesn't benefit from it so the only opponents are those "who obviously have something to hide."

I would phrase the question this way: "What have you (Homeland Security) accomplished that, absent the Patriot Act, could not have been accomplished? With an honest answer, I, we, us Citizens against whom this new power is used, can make an informed decision as to whether or not we are ok with it. But who in law enforcement is going to give me a straight answer to that question? No Bod EE

Maybe this whole government out of control thing bothers me more than most but there is only so much power to go around. Whatever the gubmint has is exactly what we let them have. The irony is that once that power is relinquished, you'll never see it again. And so 9/11 and the government's failure to prevent it become the reason for the transfer of power from the Citizens to the Government. They reward themselves for their failures. And we pay the bill. Forever.

Because he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
Because she doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground.
Almost? What the fuck do you mean, almost?
Escape routes? You don't get 72 virgins for escape routes, ya pussy.

Hardly a threat to western civilization, but it's good that they stopped these asshats from recruiting people that actually could do something.