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-   -   John Brown (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=13314)

zippyt 02-14-2007 10:57 PM
Got ya , now I understand what you were talking about , I agree , she could have put these folks in better light ( literly ) , shown a more human side insted of high lighting there battle scars ,


FUCK now I am PISSED !!!!
Who the FUCK does she think she is , ??
What the FUCK has she Done for the betterment of her nation / way of life ( weather she agrees with the orders /agenda or NOT ) !!!!!


AHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!

Hippikos 02-15-2007 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 315691)
If you look at the res of her work you will understand what I am talking about. I am not refering to that picture specifically but her work as a whole.

I agree with you about the picture of the couple, and I certainly don't mean to cast any doubt on the couple or their feelings for one another.

As for the Tomoko shot, it wasn't "lit" at all. It was dramatic light, but if you know about gene smith's work he shot in "available light" and didn't carry along lighting gear. In fact, many people say he shot in "available darkness" because he often worked in situations where there wasn't any light. In that particular shot the window was the only source of light in the bath and he couldn't have shot it from the other direction since there wasn;t anywhere to stand. As it is "contre jour" or backlit is not a desirable position to be in to photograph. He did what he had to.

I understand it is hard to have a discussion about these photographers with out you knowing much about them or their manner of working, but if you look at a larger body of work, learn a bit about the photographer's method of working you may see what I mean.

Apologies if I sound condescending, I don't mean to.
No appologies needed FFF. Just that I was struck by the picture and had no idea who made it and really no intention to find out. Maybe all this deeper discussion is too much, why not just see it as it is a snap shot of a sad moment in time and let's go on with our life.

fargon 02-15-2007 06:11 AM
Mrs. Brown, is a wonderful woman, she loves her man and that is all that matters. Using this photograph as a political statement is wrong.
Sgt. Brown is a very brave Marine and they deserve our congratulations
not our pity.

Elspode 02-15-2007 10:13 AM
The photographer is clearly attempting to evoke emotion in the viewer. However, she is not *creating* anything. These individuals have been horribly maimed and scarred in the service of their country. Most people don't see the individual impact that our efforts at bringing Truth, Justice and The American Way to other lands have on our Armed Forces. That the photographer chooses to present these tragic figures in a compelling manner doesn't bother me.

Every photographer composes their shots, no matter what the subject. I don't see this photographer's work as being any more manipulative of the public than pictures of Dubya in a flight suit, or the attempt of the government to keep pictures of cargo planes full of flag draped caskets out of the press.

People need to know the reality of war. Need to have their faces rubbed in it, so that, when we are called to fight, we know exactly the cost, down to the last eye lost for an eye and tooth lost for a tooth.

xoxoxoBruce 02-15-2007 01:09 PM
Honestly her expression in the first picture had me worried. Spluch had these pictures and this write up which made me feel a little better about the their relationship.
Quote:
Marine Sergeant Ty Ziegel already had his life planned out, he would marry his girlfriend Renee Kline upon returning from his second tour of duty in Iraq.

But one fateful day a suicide bomber hit his truck, tearing apart his body and making him among the 20,000 soldiers that have been wounded in Iraq.

When Marine Sergeant Ty Ziegel woke up from his coma, he was still in a fog of drugs. He knew his fiancée, Renee, was there and sensed her love for him. She had been playing with his feet because there was so little of him she could touch. He was told of his injuries but was so out of it, he thought: “Whatever.”

As the scale of his injuries sank in, his heart tightened. One arm was a stump and his remaining hand had only two fingers. Later, his big toe was grafted on in place of a thumb. One eye was blind and milky, as if melted, and his ears had been burnt away. The top of his skull had been removed and inserted by doctors into the fatty tissue inside his torso to keep it viable and moist for future use. He was a mess.

Renee lived with Ty at the Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas for a year and a half, sharing Ty's every hope and fear. Their relationship became stronger than ever, and Ty and Renee moved back to their hometown in Illinois in July 2006, and got married in shortly thereafter.

xoxoxoBruce 02-15-2007 01:14 PM
Also, I wonder if Nina Berman was there taking pictures for her Purple Heart series and was not taking the official wedding pictures. That would explain how she caught them, not ready, off guard. ;)

Elspode 02-15-2007 01:18 PM
I've been out of antidepressants for three days. The strength and dedication of this couple makes me want to just sob my goddamn eyes out.

monster 02-15-2007 01:29 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle1294008.ece

The Berman picture is just a picture. It doesn't reflect the story. It's a powerful picture. It's a wonderful story.

Hippikos 02-15-2007 02:12 PM
Quote:
Honestly her expression in the first picture had me worried.
I think her face doesn´t express the worrying about her husbands appearance or their future but more how people will perceive the picture and might not understand her motives or their situation.

warch 02-15-2007 06:21 PM
Foot, I think it great that you look critically at this work and its messages. The idea that a photo is objective and true is rooted deeply. I see the slick presentation, heightened color and lighting, but it just strikes me as a contemporary aesthetic styling. I don't see this treatment of subject as "use". I am assuming she worked with the cooperation of her subjects due to the intimacy of the shots. And I am assuming as adults, they gave consent.

I found the image of the bride and groom dancing, with her hands behind the back of his head very loving.

Her work has a defininte angle and perspective, I read the purple heart series as showing a reality and intimacy that we don't often see unless we know the individuals. There is a shot of a guy in a store with a kid staring at him, that pity gaze. The pic captured his dignity, I think.

The mega church series plays off surrealism.

There is a parallel conversation about photographs of disaster. If human subjects are included might it be gratuitous, push tabloid? (like Nina's?) but if it is just landscape, detail, softened, is that overly distancing?

Elspode 02-15-2007 06:57 PM
Warch said it way better than I could have.

Urbane Guerrilla 02-16-2007 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippikos (Post 315658)
To me it's just a surreal picture of a young couple which dreams about a happy future were shattered because of an unnessecary war, but nonetheless decided to continue with their marriage which asks a lot of courage and dedication of both.
I object to the very notion that a war to remove a dictatorship can ever be unnecessary (which is how you spell it). While it may by exceedingly good fortune not require a war to remove a dictatorship, none should ever flinch at removing a dictatorship by artillery, because that is usually what it takes.

Democracy must prevail, dictatorship must perish, and the casualty count, set next to this moral imperative, is immaterial. That is, if you want a good world. Too many fools and pseudosophisticates don't want it enough.


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