Oh my no, I never said anything like that at all - please don't put words in my mouth. I said that this inequality was NOT the fault of the Catholic church - thats all, nothing more.

In fact I think I clearly stated that "since those rules no longer apply that the situation must and has changed." Please don't misconstrue what I meant. If it was unclear I apologize.

youre right, i did put words in your mouth. for that i apologise. however, given the history and recent actions of the church, i stand by what i said previously. in christianity, the church has undoubtedly kept women down and erm .... out ... in the kitchen. if thats where a woman [i]chooses[i] to be, thats fine and dandy. if its not, its oppression.

Thats a nice distinction.

Unfortunately, after the fights of the 70s and 80s, we ended up in a situation (I think this has settled down again into something more balanced though) where women who chose to do exactly that felt (and possibly were) looked down on by other women.

I think women are now in a situation where they have to get an education and join the workforce. To me that leaves the most important task of raising their children, our future generations, to hired help. IMHO - that sucks. Thats just my 2 cents though. Typically, but NOT ALWAYS, women are far better at that than their male counterparts.

That's false. They don't have to do anything. They are now in a situation where they can choose. Much of our society promotes materialism, so people feel they need both parents working to keep up with the Joneses, but if you lower your standard of living, you can survive on one income.

Also, men who stay at home with the children usually do a bang up job.
My brother and his wife share the task pretty much equally. Now that she's a qualified nurse, he's scaled down his working day in order to take account of the girls' needs.

They are very well brought ujp girls and happy. They have a close relationship with both parents. Not every woman who chooses to have a career leaves their children with the help.

This got past me on first reading. Get an education? No wonder so many kids are screwed up if their mothers are selfishly educating themselves instead of raising their babies. Women are so much better at raising babies than men, they should leave the education to men.

My ex didn't do a very good job of taking care of our sons when I was working (something he had a problem doing).

I think there IS pressure on women to do everything including having a job, study, raise kids and do the house. This is one of the things the womens movement has to answer for. They said we could do it all, which most of us can. Just not all at the same time in my opinion. It puts far too much pressure on a woman to be everything if she happens to be married to a man who doesn't realize how much 'work' she actually does.

In my opinion (which can be supported by research), these unrealistic expectations have had a huge influence on the rising divorce rate in society today.

Oh I would totally agree. The myth of 'superwoman' has a lot to answer for.

Feminist are just like every other moment. Their intention is good and the majority of the people in the group are good but the extremists ruin it for everyone. I can't help but hate the label "feminist" after some experiences.

I am having difficulties writing today - I meant FEEL they have to - instead of being in a position. . . oh never mind - Ali said it better.

What church is that?:confused:

Thank you. ;)
My girls rock, whether that's my doing or not *shrug*.

Although some feminists really get my goat, they've helped free us all. Pete and I were able to choose to have her work for good pay while I did the kid/house stuff instead of her staying home and trying to stretch my tiny paychecks. Now I get to see what women used to have to go through trying to get their careers back on track. The good news is, I'm better prepared to do the work now.

christian, muslim, jewish etc ... choose one. theyre all pretty much the same., imo.


"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active power of the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of a woman comes from defect in the active power...." Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica,Q92, art. 1, Reply Obj. 1
"And a man will choose...any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman...Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33. 1
"And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her." Ecclesiastes 7:26, from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament)






The severe and shameful oppression of women and their contributions to society has been hidden throughout the world or at best a rarely or untold story. The deaths of accused witches (heretics) is a direct result of this oppression and reached it’s peak from 1200 to 1800A.D. varying in range from 100,000 to 9 million persons but, the percentage of women killed, during this time, is consistent in all references. Eighty percent of the people accused, tortured, and burned during the witch hunts were women! There is a systematic behavior of scholastic and intellectual men who have feared women and her powers dating as far back pre-Paleolithic and Neolithic times. Europe witnessed this massive hunt, torture and killing of women and men who were also viewed as pagan/heretics. The pagans refused to give up their matrilineal culture and practices. Their very lives of planting and harvesting depended on it. The witch hunts became a useful vehicle as an attempt to stamp out the ancient pagan traditions built around the worship of the Goddess and Gods. “If life is inherently evil, the church fathers needed someone to blame; and who better to blame than woman, who creates life from her own body? Living women, also, can be publicly punished, as the iconic and illusory Devil can never be.” 2 Plus the church had a long tradition of taking over the most celebrated pagan holidays and began to call them Christian to gain the support of the people of the land. The church hijacked the yearly pagan celebration of the Sun and made it the celebration of the son now called Christmas.