Tip from an old geezer:

Best way to find a woman is not to look for one. Most women would actually rather seduce the man. Just be available... from a distance. If she wants to play you'll be the first to know. Main thing is discretion. Keep it to yourself.

Update - So, I just called work to see when if I work tomorrow. She answered the phone. Found out when I work next. I asked her how she's doing today. She said she's still doing fine and all, and she called her ex today for whatever reason. I know it's alot easier for guys to get over past loves and everything, believe me I know this. Especially when someone treats you like garbage. Guess maybe she dosen't think like that. I just don't want any drama and be caught in between that situation. The only thing I know is if they do get back together, I don't want to hear every single day about how much he treats her like crap, yadda yadda yadda.

She's still talking to him?? Be very careful, sounds to emotionally wishy washy to me, needs to get her head on straight. Remember that Mr/Ms Right only needs to be chased in the movies, in real life it signifies an extremely emotionaly needy person who will read far too much into things and generally leave you with that stereotypical "Huh??:whofart:" expression on your face all to often. Maybe I'm just tainted, being around only engineering/medicine girls who have male emotional patterns stuck in a womans body. Remember this: "Everyone has somewhere between 1 and 1000 soulmates out there". Don't know where I heard it but it reaks of truth to me.


Also useful knowlege:


Meet "woman A". Woman A says she wants a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship.

Meet "guy A". Guy A is a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship.

Woman A thinks of Guy A as her "best friend".

Meet "guy B". Guy B is a loudmouthed asshat who drinks excessively, is abusive, dishonest, and cares only about himself.

Woman A can't get her pants off fast enough for Guy B.

Woman A then returns to emotionaly dump on Guy A about what a jerk Guy B was to her while Guy A sits there thinking to himself "I could have told you that was going to happen, so could any emotionally healthy rational adult".

Woman A thanks Guy A for being such a good friend.

Woman A then procedes to find Guy B ver. 2.0

Guy A starts trying to decide which caliber of bullet will be least likely to desturb the neighbors for when he recieves the inevitable phone call from Woman A about what Guy B 2.0 did to her


Does this sound jaded to anyone?

9th Engineer - Yeah, it seems she is still talking to him. I couldn't agree with you more on your post. It's one of the biggest things that I can't figure out why females like to deal with the asses that treat them like crap. I see it all the time here where I live. Guess I'll just sit back with the popcorn and watch. :)

Why do women hang out with asshats that treat them like crap? Ah, that's a question that's puzzled mankind for a LONG time. Countless books have been written on the subject...debates have raged for ages! In darker times some people even went to their deaths because of their position on the matter! Maybe it's time that we ALL agree that the true answer is that there is NO true answer!*


(*apologies to comic strip AGNES--my favorite!)

I don't get the self proclaimed Nice Guy (and in my case also Nice Girl). In my experience they are people who latch onto someone who has a more interesting/ emotional/ exciting [delete as appropriate] life than they do. They hang round the edges with big eager eyes hoping for some crumbs. They do not have the attributes to attract the object of their desire, so they mope, guilt trip and whine about "Nice guys always finish last"

I like to talk all night, get drunk and dance on tables and be indiscreet about sex. I don't care if someone opens doors for me - I'd rather open an email and laugh out loud. And I don't need someone to leave a lovely little choccy on my desk – I'd rather they remember that when I talk about Y that's my sister and X is my nemesis in the office, and not have to start at the beginning every time.

I have only ever been attracted to people because of their wit, their humour and – okay – sometimes raw sexual attraction. That does come with self confidence, but if that's NOT another word for ass-hattery.

I want people around me who share my tastes, my sense of humour and my passions. Or are willing to share theirs with me. I don't want someone around who is simply there because I am, or trying to get an "in" with me. For one thing it doesn't last. Some Nice People get Nasty behind your back when they realise you're not interested.

Hence my vehemence of course – I've been Nice-Burned twice. I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone here. Just a rant.

I think part of the reason they go for the bad-ass is it excites them to not know what is going to happen in the relationship. And bad-asses are usually MUCH more persistant than the nice guys. A lot of the time when I was dating I didn't want a serious relationship, and I felt like if I dated the nice guy I wouldn't be able to keep it casual. Much of that was me being naive and inexperienced. How old is she? Part of the problem could be she doesn't know what she wants.

Another issue could be she was abused or molested when she was a child. I know several women who were, and they felt like they didn't deserve anything better (than abuse). They would sabotage their relationships with the nice guys because of this feeling of unworthiness. I don't know what her problem is, I am just throwing out possibilities.

When she gets older and matures, she should come around. If she doesn't, or she is already at the stage where she should have learned her lesson, then she will probably marry one of the bad-asses, have a couple deliquint kids, and then wonder what happened to her life. Some people never learn.

I'm with you. Every guy who was ever interested in me that I didn't feel the same way about, he would whine to mutual friends about how girls don't like "nice guys." Just because you're nice doesn't make you attractive, and just because the guy we like isn't you doesn't make him an asshat.

Not only does it sound jaded but it also sounds familiar.

Guy X says he wants a woman who is honest, caring, in touch with her feelings and can handle a steady relationship.

Woman Z is a shallow, irresponsible dingbat with enough emotional baggage to fill a 747 and doesn't have the slightest idea what she wants out of life or from a man or where she will be 48 hours from now. But she is unbelievably smokin' hot.

Guy X can't rip his heart out of his chest and put it in Woman Z's purse fast enough. Usually within 24 hours of making eye contact and before he has had a chance to even speak to her and in spite of the fact that she has never given the slightest hint that she even knows that Guy X exists.

Guy X then returns to his buddies to complain that Woman Z ripped his heart out and backed over it with her car then asked him if he could wash her car while she complains to him that none of the three ex-cons out on parole she had wild-animal sex with last week called her back while his buddies sit there thinking to themselves "I could have told you that was going to happen. So could any emotionally healthy, rational adult."

Guy X thanks his buddies for agreeing with him that neither Woman Z nor life itself is being fair to him and that he is truly a martyr singled out for special suffering while others, blissfully unaware of life's complexities, enjoy a simple life filled with peace, happiness and contentment.

Guy X then pulls himself up by his bootstraps, spends the afternoon putting his heart back together with duct tape and fishing line then 7 hours later procedes to find Woman Z ver. 2.0. Wow. Woman Z 2.0 is so much hotter than Woman Z.

[Guy X thought bubble] Now I understand that Woman Z wasn't supposed to like me because if she did then I wouldn't be available for Woman Z 2.0! I can't wait'll I tell my buddies about her! I wonder how she'll introduce me to her Dad? I bet her car needs washing. Ohhhh this is gonna be great! [\bubble]

Something's missing...

I got it. Woman Y. Who's woman Y? She's the honest, caring, in touch with her feelings and can handle a steady relationship woman waiting patiently for Guy X to notice her.

:biglaugha True, true. It's easy to forget though, especially in college. The shallowness gene isn't specific to either the X or Y chromosome set I guess.

My woman Y found me and thats the best thing that ever happened to me. It is much simpler and a whole lot more relaxing and enjoyable. So much less drama and BS, yet more of the honest, caring intimacy I was looking for. No head games.

(Naomi Nevill)
There's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't reveal her name until I've got her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well, I've tried to get her time and time again.
We just end up as nothing but friends.
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)

Well, there's a certain chick I've been sweet on since I met her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't repeat her name until I get her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well one day, I'm gonna wake up and say,
"I'll do anything just to be your slave."
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)

Well, I've tried to get her time and time again.
We just end up as nothing but friends.
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)

There's a certain chick I've been sweet on since I found her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't reveal her name until I get her.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)
Well now one day, get her time and time again.
We just end up as nothing but friends.
And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time.
(What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!)

I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't tell you. (No!)
I can't tell you.

Sundae, I agree with everything you said. Well put.

Sundae girl, to me nice refers to the way a man treats other people in general - not just being a leach who is too afraid of living to actually have a life of his own. Shit, I've done a lot of livin, much of it illegal or close to it and a whole lot of it very "stupid" and dangerous. Even I'm amazed that I'm still here alive and in one piece. That doesn't change the fact that I still treat other people with respect. I'm just not an asshole. Thats the distinction that I feel is important. Many women go after the asshole thinking hes cool or tough or whatever. On the other hand some guys that you would call "nice" are just wimps and those are what I think you are referring to (the wimps), not the nice guys. Maybe I'm wrong, but there is a very large distinction between the two.

Beestie, I never laughed so much when I read your post. :D That was great! Yesman065, I totally agree with you. That's pretty much the way I am. I do treat others as others treat me. But I do my damnest to be nice to everyone, but I definately ain't a wimp either. Anyway, I found out she does want to get back together with her ex. I guess whatever makes her happy is fine with me. I did hear though that if she wants him back, she would have to change her ways. Um, I think that's a two way street right there. She can do whatever she wants. I'm just going to back out of this situation. Thanks so very much for all the input you gave me. Everyone here rocks!