The Cellar - Torture memos

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The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)

- Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - Torture memos (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=20093)

Undertoad

01-31-2010 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy (Post 631212)

But I think everyone is real clear about waterboarding, especially after we convicted our enemies for it.

Do you mean the Japanese version, where part of the procedure is getting kicked in the stomach during it?

richlevy

01-31-2010 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 631217)

Do you mean the Japanese version, where part of the procedure is getting kicked in the stomach during it?

So the choking is ok, just not the kicking?

TheMercenary

01-31-2010 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy (Post 631212)

But I think everyone is real clear about waterboarding, especially after we convicted our enemies for it.

I don't disagree with that fact.

Undertoad

01-31-2010 11:13 AM

When you said "we convicted our enemies for it," did you mean the Japanese version?

TheMercenary

01-31-2010 11:14 AM

That is the only one I know of. But obviously I didn't know there was a difference between the two.

Undertoad

01-31-2010 11:30 AM

http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_1997/yax-057.htm

Quote:

(2) ... Water torture. There were 2 forms of water torture. In the first the victim was tied or held down on his back and a cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth. Interrogation proceeded and the victim was beated if he did not reply. As he opened his mouth to breathe or to answer questions, water went down his throat until he could not hold anymore. Sometimes he was then beaten over his distended stomach , sometimes a Jap. jumped on his stomach or sometimes pressed on it with his foot. In the 2nd, the victim was tied lengthways on a ladder face upwards with a rung of the ladder across his throat and his head below the ladder. In his position he was slid head first into a tub of water and kept there until almost drowned. After being revived interrogation continued and he would be re-immersed.

tw	01-31-2010 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy (Post 631232)

So the choking is ok, just not the kicking?

According to wackos, pealing someone's skin off is not torture because that skin will grow back. Why are so many arguing silly semantics?

Same question remains unanswered. Do interrogate them or just inflict pain? Why do those who love torture not answer that question? Why do they even love choking - as if that does anything useful?

Five plus years ago, a warning to all Cellar dwellers described how confrontational America had become. Widespread is hate, fear, and 'big dic' thinking promoted by Limbaugh, Fox News, etc. Europeans would have little appreciation for the hate routinely broadcast daily on radio and TV.

How many non-Americans in The Cellar did not know five plus years ago and now appreciate how extremist some Americans are? That is not a rhetorical question. How many outside America now understand why the United States did a Pearl Harbor to Iraq? And now understand the source of hate even expressed against the French, Turks, Germans, etc.

Its interpretation? No. A question that American extremists will not answer. Do we interrogate them or just want to implement painful revenge? Other than DanaC, I am shocked how few outside America endorse torture by their silence.

TheMercenary

01-31-2010 07:25 PM

thanks UT.

I don't know what we did or did not do.

And no one else can say for sure either.

tw	01-31-2010 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 631334)

I don't know what we did or did not do.

So the pictures from Abu Ghriad never existed?

Were those also ideal interrogation techiques?

Lamplighter

04-14-2013 09:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)

NY Times
By ELLEN BARRY
Published: April 13, 2013

Attachment 43645

David Addington, left, John Yoo, center, and Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller are among those whom Russia has barred.

Russia Bars 18 Americans After Sanctions by U.S.

Quote:

The list is headed by four men who Russia’s Foreign Ministry says
are responsible for “the legalization of torture” and “unlimited detention”:

David Addington, who served as chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney
and provided legal support for interrogation policies;

John Yoo, a high-ranking Bush administration lawyer who wrote several major opinions on torture;

and Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller and Rear Adm. Jeffrey Harbeson,
each of whom commanded detention operations in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Now the US government should follow suite,
and the Univ of California should move John Yoo's office to Begg Rock.

Undertoad

04-14-2013 09:26 AM

If Russia is barring Americans for anything torture-related, it must be for copyright violations of their own methods.

http://terrorism.about.com/od/humanr...siaTorture.htm

Quote:

“Disappearances” in Chechnya are so widespread and systematic that they constitute crimes against humanity; by some estimates between 3,000 and 5,000 have “disappeared” since 1999. In numerous cases their corpses are found in unmarked graves or dumped, but in most instances they are simply never heard from after being taken into custody . . . The majority of the bodies showed signs of severe mutilation, including flaying or scalping, broken limbs, severed finger tips and ears, and close range bullet wounds typical of summary executions. Examinations by medical doctors of some of these bodies have revealed that some of the deliberate mutilations were inflicted while the detainees were still alive.

Lamplighter

04-14-2013 10:13 AM

OK, but regardless of whatever happens in other governments,
we are responsible for what happens in ours.

Yoo and Additon sold out ours for legal expendiency.

richlevy

04-14-2013 07:18 PM

I think I'd prefer us measuring ourselves against the best that the world has to offer rather than justifying ourselves against the worst.

ZenGum

04-14-2013 08:11 PM

Look at that filthy, pitch-black kettle! Just look at it!!

Undertoad

04-14-2013 09:59 PM

Read the original story. This barring is in response to a US barring of Russian officials who falsely prosecuted, jailed, beat, and killed a guy, for exposing Russian corruption.

The Russians didn't like the US getting all up in their business

So they stopped US parents adopting Russian orphans. Too bad for the fucking orphans, who are the modern cannon fodder of diplomacy now

"Stop or we'll shoot our kids!"

But Lamp took the bait and praised the Russians for beating his own favorite dead horses...

The Russian government is corrupt but OOH LOOK SHINY THINGS I HATE JOHN YOO TOO!! WE SHOULD BE MORE LIKE THE RUSSIANS!!

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