BTW, I am making a point... I don't agree with this at all, once two people make a baby it is their job to care for it.

Why are these women carrying kids to term that they can't pay for who have been fathered by deadbeats? 3/4 of the entire point of legal abortion is avoiding this shit.:headshake

Because they can't afford to pay for abortions, maybe?

Or they have moral objections to abortion...

The other side to this, 9th, is that believing in the right for a woman to choose abortion, you must also believe in the right of the woman to choose to carry that child to term, no matter if anyone thinks it's irresponsible for any reason, no matter if she conjugated with a low-life, no matter any social issues anyone other than that woman has.

Yes, but she should also be prepared to take the responsibility for her decision, which may include the lack of the father.

Absolutely...but I'm saying that it isn't for Joe Schmo on the street to say she should have aborted. Believing in choice is believing in choice. You can't have it both ways.

Well said.

Yes I can't. I mean no I can. ;)

I have to say that the Child Support Agency is good for my children. Their father is very bad at stepping up to his responsibility. Every year when they do the assessment to see what he should pay, he quits his job then tells them that he can't pay because he doesn't have a job. They then say he only has to pay the minimum which is about $27/month. The unfortunate thing for him is that they're now going back to all the old records and have caluculated a huge debt for him.

Personally, I don't care if he pays or not, other than the fact that on the one hand he claims to love his kids, but on the other, he's quite happy to let someone else pay all their every day expenses.

I didn't think he was a deadbeat when I met him. I didn't think he was a deadbeat when we fell pregnant. In fact, it wasn't till I was 7 months pregnant and I found out he'd been having an affair with someone else and then quit his job that I had the first realization. We tried to work it out. Had our second son, but I found out that he was still up to his same tricks and they just got worse.

Sometimes you just don't know what people are going to do, no matter how well you think you know them. Knowing what I know now, I would never have allowed myself to fall pregnant to him, but it's amazing how hindsight gives you 20 20 vision.

Another issue is that male or female, the people with the worst impulse control and planning skills are the ones who "forget" the birth control or use less reliable methods.
These are also likely to be the people who are least capable of adequately caring for the new entity they've created. Thus, the cycle continues

It's not the act of choosing that's important, here or really in anything else. It's the opportunity to take the actions necessary to secure the best possible outcome. Abortion is simply a convenience, not something sacred. Also, the language about having to affirm a womans choice by telling her she's doing the right thing no matter what is bullshit. For that choice I expect her to know her own abilities and situation and act accordingly. There's no checklist for this, some women may be able to care for a child in circumstances where others crumble, but she has 9 months to figure that out. Situations that change after birth are one thing, but if she has the baby knowing full well that she can't care for it properly then she's the one who's mocking her right to choose.

I disagree. A choice is just that, a choice. Too many people think that pro-choice means you can choose to abort. Not believing that it also includes the right to choose to carry to term is short-sighted, and negates the whole right to choose.

Ahh, if everyone knew themselves so well, if these choices were easy. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way.

Absolutely.

The other thing is that we have complete cultures of women now believing that having the baby is more important than having the father, or any father of any of their 4 kids from different fathers, not being involved and that has completely acceptable.