"calling the tail a leg does not make it one"
 

Take a look at the words under Ibby's name in any post: "She", not "he", guys.

You may take this as 'request'...I don't.

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Indeed: I introduced 'cock', but it has not been my focus.

My focus is on the reality of a chromosome and what follows or extends from that chromosome.

What follows or extends from the source are characteristics...remove the characteristics (by surgery, for example) and the source remains (you can stick a rod into a tail -- to make it useful as a leg -- and it's still a tail; you can remove the tail and the fact that the animal is genetically meant to have one remains).

This is my point, my focus.

#

No doubt 'he' is used in many ways, but, what is the primary definition and reason for 'he'? To signify 'male' (a state dictated by a chromosome).

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When a person says, 'I am *transgendered', why should I 'not' accept that self-assessment? And, no, taking his word for it -- "I am a transgendered woman" -- is not the equivalent of agreeing to call 'he' 'she'. Therefore I rely on the testimony of the person in question, not shifty cultural tripe.

If he lies then, shame on him.

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Please, Cyber, I'm not talking about 'manhood' as cultural artifact...I'm talking about maleness a physical reality sourced in the physical.

I know I can shorthand myself from time to time, but my words have been clear throughout, so -- even with shorthanding -- my meanings and intent are clear.

None of you is stupid, so I assume (especially in the case of V) that time worn strategy of 'what's that you say?' (pretended misunderstanding so as to distract and wear down the offender) is being deployed (and has been for much of this thread). Pick at nits and -- it is hoped -- the offender will just 'accept' and move on.

Good luck with that.

Lots of, as I say, shifty definitions are thrown about as though -- again -- believing something or saying it enough times negates what's real.

It doesn't.






*meaning 'I feel like the other sex' (and, perhaps, have altered myself to make flesh agree with sentiment)...a statement of self-assessment that any one is welcome to make...however, I'm not obligated to observe that assessment by accepting a redefining of 'she' to include XY.


'nuff said till tomorrow.

Dana, I hate to correct again, but violent assault is NOT the worst.

Being dead is worse than being beaten.

Hundreds of us are murdered every year. Less than half are prosecuted. In the US, the most popular defense is the trans panic defense. Despite it's weak legal standing, it has been advanced in many of the cases involving murder of a trans person.

There have been several high profile cases in the last ten years, most notably the Gwen Araujo murder trial.

Most of the murders are never reported in the news and if they are, they get scant mention of any facts other than the trans-identity of the victim. Salacious information sells more advertising and garners more views than plain old information I guess. But then the news media almost inevitably get the gender wrong and refer to us as our birth gender and, if known, birth name. Even if the person's name had been legally changed. We just don't get no respect in major media outlets.

Even in the best of the options, shame is also a negative event. No one should be ashamed of who they are. You certainly are not. No one really is. Except us. And we are only ashamed until we learn to NOT be ashamed. And that process would be much faster and less traumatic if everyone else would just get over themselves and accept us for who we are and not what they think we are.

{off soapbox for now}

Pam

Transgender, yes. Andro? Probably. Transsexual? You have given me no indication that you wish to play for the other team. Please forgive me if I missed something. I do not doubt that YOU know who you are. But you have not specifically told ME that definition. Last I checked, you were exploring. That's fine. If you have arrived at a conclusion, I missed the announcement.

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Pam

Sorry Pam I wasn't clear enough. Violent assault may well result in murder, but I was setting that against the state sanctioned execution of the past. Also I absolutely see shame as a negative. Nobody should feel shame over something as basic and fundamental as gender identity.

Basically my point was that we have come so far but have a way yet to go.

Just heard on the radio a trail for Saturday Live. Apparently one of the pieces today is looking at what happens to couples when a man and woman become two women after the husband has gender reassignment.

I heard that story, or a story just like it. It has a happy ending.

I am LIVING that!

So far, a happy story with a happy ending every now and then.

Maybe I'm a little confused about your separation of terms here. In the circles I move in within the community, there isn't such a separation between the definitions. What defines the difference, in your parlance, between transgender and transexual? Are transexuals only those that desire SRS? Is transgender a particularly different category than transexual?
As far as those members of the (twenty-something, queer-as-in-fuck-you, anti-establishment) trans* community that I'm familiar with are concerned, the demarcation of "transgender" versus "transexual" is entirely a matter of whether the trans* person using the term prefers one or the other to describe themselves. as in, I prefer being described as transgender or just trans* rather than transexual, but I don't make a serious distinction between the two terms beyond which I like better.
The fact that the trans* community - to what small extent there's anything resembling a "community" - is so disparate and constantly shifting, it's sometimes hard to put together a unified set of terms and language. I hope i don't come off as belligerent, I honestly don't understand your distinctions here - how can I be transgender, but not transexual? The only set of definitions I've heard that seem to encompass your distinction is whether or not I plan on having SRS. Is that what you mean by saying I'm one but not the other, that I don't "plan to play for the other team"?

Here is a link to some articles written by a friend of mine regarding mental sex in terms of story development:

http://dramaticapedia.com/tag/mental-sex/

She is also transgender.

Is henry an Oklahoma judge?

OMG. The magic book that claims all forms of life were created simultaneously in their present form is used in a court of law. I may have to faint.
Where's the separation of church and state when you need them?

Also what are hermaphrodites?
God's practice, or his upgrade?
If he couldn't control DNA he shouldn't have used it in the first place.

Ibby, you have hit on one of my hot button topics with the TG community; the complete lack of agreement on definitions and terms. If we cannot even agree on who/what we are, how can we expect the rest of society to accept us?

I use and define the terms this way:

TS = transsexual = a person who desires and is actively engaged in chemical and/or surgical alteration of one's body to parallel one's mental status.

TG = transgender = a person who is not comfortable with one's gender but who's dysphoria is not strong enough to impair daily life.

CD = crossdresser = a person who wears clothing appropriate to the opposite sex but who does so out of preference and not as a sexual fetish. Such a person does not generally experience dysphoria.

TV = transvestite = a person who wears the clothing of the opposite sex for purposes of sexual fulfillment, but not outside of a sexual context. Such a person does not generally experience dysphoria.

Androgyne = a person who displays superficial secondary characteristics of both genders. May or may not experience dysphoria and rarely at an elevated level.

Drag King/Queen = a person who dresses in the clothing of the opposite sex (usually to extremes) for purposes of entertainment or performance. Usually but not always are gay/lesbian but experience no dysphoria and have no desire to alter their appearance other than superficially.

Hermaphrodite = a person (very rare) who displays primary physical characteristics of both sexes at the same time. Usually, these tend towards one or the other strongly. Most often, they are diagnosed at birth and surgically "corrected" immediately, but may be incorrectly gendered by the parents/doctors.

Asexual = a person who is gender neutral and prefers to be referred to as a "third sex", that is; neither male nor female. I am not sure about these people.

I will not bother to define sub-categories and fetishes as they get too numerous to deal with here.

Mind you, these are MY definitions and may or may not be accepted by anyone else.

I do not hold truck with those who are "trannier than thou" and seek to de-legitimize others based on where on the spectrum they are. I fully accept that some TSs do not seek surgery for whatever reasons. I also accept that some may be in more than one category or may change categories over time. Dysphoria is different for each individual.

I hold that transsexualism is a medical condition that is self-diagnosed and treatable with drug therapy and surgical correction. The degree of treatment is dependent on the individual. Once "cured" through a successful treatment regimen and psychological and social transition, one no longer suffers from the condition and should be legally and socially recognized as the target gender and not as a transsexual. The term 'transsexual' should be used as a noun and not as an adjective. In my opinion, of course.

Wait a minute... which image is he using? Males and females look quite different, which is the basic issue that a lot of people have. So... either God has got two (or more?) images or is a hermaphrodite. And if God is sexless, then neither males nor females are in God's image.

Well, I live full-time as an out woman. I will be starting HRT in the next month or so, if my blood work turns out fine. I think i'd very much be in the former category, rather than the latter, in your terms.

I think perhaps we haven't been privy to the whole of your journey Ibs. When you first 'came out' you were talking in terms of gender exploration and not really feeling that either 'he' or 'she' was entirely appropriate.