which was also why torture is acceptable, why people can be kidnapped anywhere in the world (extraordinary rendition), why people can be imprisoned for years without judicial review, and why America has suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus. This is acceptable in totalitarian societies. Is that acceptable to you? If yes, then how do you justifying denial of rights as provided by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights?

I would say they have the rights given to them by their country of origin. Which is totally useless to say, I know, since I imagine it'd be damn hard to correctly determine exactly where each of them came from.

I'm always "testy" when some asshole doesn't read what I say, and tells me what I really mean or think.


The problem with immigrants coming to this country, is one of the major reasons they come... freedom. Even the ones that come legally, once they are here, they virtually disappear from the feds radar. It's a conundrum the feds, haven't been able to resolve.

I don't understand why an immigrant, convicted of a felony, is so hard to deport.... or why someone that overstays their visa for years, can't be found and deported, while paying taxes every year.
There is a bunch of Nigerians in MA that receive a letter from the feds, every year, telling them their student visa expired X years ago and they must leave the country. They don't respond and the feds do nothing.
The illegal 17 year old Mexican that hit my car and ran, with no drivers license or insurance, is still here. He was in jail and the feds couldn't find him?

The Supreme court decided that anyone landed, has full rights and privileges of a citizen. I understand that keeps immigrants from being discriminated against, at least in theory. But, I'd be more comfortable if the feds at least knew where they are, until they become citizens.

To me it is very simple - Come here legally or don't come here at all. If you come here illegally then you are a criminal - can't you grasp that basic concept? No? OH thats right - you are the mental midgit.

[rant] You were repeatedly challenged and asked to respond in the Stock Market thread where you, tw, has been proven wrong and refuses to be a man and respond accordingly. You are so pathetic that you make posts in several other threads and yet conveniently for you, you avoided that particular one. Why is that? You don't even have the balls to admit when you are wrong and then make assumptions, incorrect ones at that, and respond to them with irrelovencies - as usual. You are a one trick pony with a mind like a steel trap caught out in the rain - rusted shut! You made all kinds of denials and statements, yet when challenged you don't even have enough balls to respond, not only to me, but other posters as well.[end rant]

You've got me? What do you mean?

Let you know when my set up? Pllease explain.

This is my favorite show! The tw/yesman Show....starrrrrring: tw and yesman!
:corn:

My very own personal detractor.
Your thread to beat me up.

I just call 'em like I see 'em. And I don't like the inequity of two people behaving the same way, and only one of them getting shit for it.

That's not my style. Maybe LJ will do that - D'oh, I don't see that happening.

These problems could all be solved by deporting every illegal alien and spending more time and money on hunting down the ones we can't find. However, it would be a kinder solution to simply give them citizenship. All the sudden they're no harder or easier to track than you or me.

I speed, I've done illegal drugs, I've sold illegal drugs, I drank underage, etc. Who here hasn't broken laws? I can't imagine it's been very exciting for anyone who's never gone over the speed limit. Why is crossing the border illegally so much more heinous than anything I've done?

I don't buy the concept that this is 'only a legal argument' because what I'm trying to get at is the law is stupid. If the law is stupid, it's stupid to punish people for it. Punishment for it's own sake is likewise a stupid concept.

Regardless, what this all boils down to is that I am entitled to live here because I was born here, and you are NOT entitled to live here because you were born elsewhere. I can't buy it, it's too nasty. So, if you believe entitlement by birth is an OK thing for us to have, then that core belief makes us so different that there's not much common ground to argue from, eh?

And bruce, I'm sorry I pissed you off.

If we all get to pick and choose which laws we want to obey, what's the point in having laws? If we feel strongly enough that a law is bad, there are processes to get it changed.

(That's not to say that I don't break the speed limit, etc., but if I get caught, I know that I'm responsible, and I suffer the consequences.)

I agree to an extent, and I accept the risk of being caught every time I speed. Some laws, though, don't make any sense but not enough people have the desire to change them (mostly because it doesn't affect them, and if it's not my problem why do I care?). I guess it comes from the perversity of my nature, but if I don't agree with the law, I don't have any problem with someone breaking it.

This of course, doesn't mean I take any chances with it (anymore at least!). I don't break laws with severe consequences anymore just because I don't want to deal with the punishment. That's a major reason I will likely leave the country as soon as I can - to find some place more akin to me.

Nice name, btw.

And so you have defined why we have a problem. For example, EE Times of 27 Aug 2007 describes even a reverse brain drain because our draconian laws are based in the mindset you see in Yesman065's post; a solution that ignores the problem. The series then continues to explain how desperate America is for these illegal workers in high tech jobs. The report uses examples to demonstrate people who want to start businesses in America and cannot for 4 or up to 13 years. So they leave. Notice how some blindly see unenforced laws as the problem. They don't even see why the laws are not enforceable. They just know enforcement - classic 'big dic' thinking - will solve everything.

We need 1.8 million immigrants to harvest the crops. We offer only 29,000 visas. So we should enforce laws upon those other 1,710,000 workers only because only those laws are righteous? We even ignore the purpose of those laws? No wonder Martin Luther King was so evil. Meanwhile look at the numbers even for workers that America most desperately needs. Millions are needed. Only 0.12 million visas are available.

America even created 2 million Iraqi refugees. We only permitted a few hundred to come to America. The laws are never wrong. It must be all those evil Iraqis. Laws do not create problems? Well, yes. Problem are the foolish who support those laws; who ignore the problem - those laws.

They are here illegally because we need them, because they need the work, and because so many want to enforce laws that are not enforceable. Since we are into enforcing stupid laws, then bring back prohibition. Notice all the drunk drivers who would not longer exist if we just enforce that law also.

I wonder if they go to churches who don't get taxed?

Isn't that the best place to hide from the law?

Nope, no reason not to go get them in there.