I also have it ... a favorite album of my childhood, which I just got on CD.

I am going to say these two word. I do not believe you’ve heard them before.

I am going to say them only once.

Here they come.

You ready and listening?

OK now

Human beings

No one has a monopoly on them. About seventy years ago, someone tried.

A gentleman amongst 300 million Americans is affected by a man who lives amongst about 30 million. Conscious getting to you? Its bound to happen preferably before the onset of ulcers.

Can you please elaborate on what you are talking about? I guess I'm not adequately attuned to your higher thought process, lol.

does this make sense?

did you mean conscience? i still don't get it.

you miss my point, i think. i'm saying i am not my country. i am not my job. i am not .....nevermind.

you rule, dov, you're the fucking king. canada rocks. big jews from canada rock extra.

Now you've got it, Jim. ;)

BS. If you weren’t American you wouldn’t give a sh!t. You are American, live with it. Seems to be an epidemic of Americans claiming they are not American, that they are human lately. If you had that attitude twenty years ago, it may have helped. Abdicating now is either fear or quilt and useless. Other than, it cleanses your soul. Ulcers

Let me know if you understand or not, I do dummy down on occaision.

dov, i understand that you think you're smarter than everyone. I also understand that your inferiority complex requires you to constantly compare yourself to the best. I now realize that you are little better than a troll, and as you're main interest lie with politics, i could give a shit.

anyway, canada really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

He probably only reads the threads to which he has already posted and therefore receives notification. I understand you are enjoying taunting him, but you are reinforcing the behavior. I also recognize that I also just did by replying to this, but it had to be said. And you're right, jim. Canada doesn't matter, except in hockey.

i was thinking we should ice him, too. i'm in if you are.

I would love (one day too late) to know where you are going. What is your point? Maybe a concise summary of objectives might be in order? Currently I see random responses to posts that may be provided to only distract and bait you. If so, they are doing a very amusing job. What exactly is your point?

What exactly is your question?

My point is, Americans are waking up. Rhetoric and spin have almost become impotent. You laugh at yourselves when you hear the pontificating leaving your mouths. It beats crying I suppose. Spin, rep, dem, and in between are fighting their best not to accept they are alllllll responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity. I have been doing what I do since the present administration took power and the citizen became brainwashed clones; I have attempted placing a mirror to the nose of a rationalizing American. You are waking up. It hurts. You transfer your shame and belittle peace-loving countries. It is a start. You will hang him and get the blood off your hands. Later, if you dare look close enough, you will see the blood embedded in your hands forever or until you redeem yourselves somehow. I cannot see how. Your grandchildren will be stigmatized and their grandchildren, because of you! But I didn’t know moaned by a population 60 years ago, didn’t work, and wont work again. All, dems , reps, and others are responsible. You had the right, obligation as stated in the second amendment to have an armed revolt, to storm the White House and vote a legitimate administration, into power You were too busy deciding the brand of the plasma TV you planned to buy.

I have not a clue what your enriched white bread question was and I do not give a dam.

Wait wait wait,

- tw asked for a concise summary?

- and didn't get one??

What happens next? We are in danger of the universe exploding...

What happens next? Babylon, USA, and its decadence continue to feed terrorism, children starving and dieing of aids in the third world. We saw third world, Katrina. A few more natural disasters, (Gaia is pissed, should have signed the Kyoto Accord. She sees everything), several local mall, brief case dirty bombs. Code red. Country comes to a standstill, other than mercenaries, Blackwater confiscating arms, and using the constitution as toilet paper. Too rough, so its not even good enough to wipe an American’s ass, flushed and clogs the toilet, fcuking constitution. Pleaseeeeeee world, Pleaseeeeeeee world help us poor victimised United States of America. Maybe states, once you have paid back every cent you owe to everyone, we will consider it. In other words, when hell freezes over.

Babylon falls, States becomes third world. For the sake of ceremony bush is hung (According to Jeff "Bulldog" Gannon, bush is far from hung) and his body burnt, not necessarily in that order. Keep in mind, always, when I speak of the American population, its not left, right, or centre, it is the American population, across the board.

We have a Contingency plan, to build igloos along our 8000 mile border to keep you out, when your sh1t hits your fan.

He defines the code as red but uses black letters. Now I understand. Barak is back.

That is the best you could come up with? Pitiful. I caught the innuendoes. Doubly pitiful. Try saying it to someone’s face one day, no innuendoes, but that take balls.
You are a nickle a dozen.

tw has identified you as Barak. That means he knows your game is merely to provoke, and he won't play. The attention seeker, when starved of attention, is either reformed, goes away, or becomes so obviously intentionally annoying that s/he is banned.

We have seen this pattern repeated hundreds of times. Barak was the 1991-92 version.

Thank you.

I am considering reforming. I will let you know. I have never reformed before. We will see how it goes.

You can ban someone here because the hierarchy does not like him or her?

I really hate PC popularity contests, but it is your show. I am just a humble newbie

It's pretty rare. The new user registration explains

For once, Beestie and I agree...

Stream of Consciousness writing just barely worked for James Joyce.

Barely.

i can't believe dov has made it this far without being banned. you guys are getting lenient in the cellar's old age.

Well unlike that HUMBUG, he's restricting most of the crap to two threads and making some interesting points.

Actually, In the cellar's old age nobody got banned, it was a tradition. In the Internet era there are far too many purposeful trolls and assholes and attention whores to maintain that policy. I personally have come to the conclusion that moderation is, sadly, necessary.

It's impossible to make everyone happy with any level of moderation, but more people are happy with it than without it. Some people think there is a prinicple at stake here, but having to ban one spammer per day has really changed my mind about that. It makes it clear there is content we simply won't put up with, and no principle worth protecting that speech.

DOV’s problem is limited comprehension. Seeing several thousand people screwed by Katrina and wailing on TV leads to the assumption the US will fold in an emergency. Forgetting that millions were severely affected by that storm. Millions are coping and moving ahead without making the news. Millions are being helped by other millions under the radar. That’s the problem of viewing the world through the media. :eyebrow:

Nice to see your paying attention.

In other words you can ban someone here because the hierarchy does not like him or her.
No wonder this Forum is so meat and potatoes.
We will see…

Sorry I wasn’t more diversified. My attention at times was caring for a couple of threads I began which had well over 100 posts. I am like that; I take care of my threads. Multitasking is not my forte. Maybe you can teach me?

Consider it is not I. Consider you are narrow minded, and the status quo must be defended at any cost. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolute. Sleep on it.

It is inevitable. Babylon will fold.

Er... You know, now that I think about it, why don't you just stay with your pet threads? :rolleyes:

The Cellar? Meat and potatoes? Its more like a giant smorgasboard. I think I'll go read the "What's for lunch" thread now. :yum:

And yet you're still here, although most find you to be as pathetic a figure as we've seen.

Undertoad, nice to know who is the spokesperson for the we'ves is.

Well, I would say this Forum either tops or is pretty dam close at being at the top of Message Boards which judges the poster and not the post. Hey, if it works for you, go for it. My posts may change but I wont. We will see how its resolved, I am not leaving, even though most who have judged me are pretentious holier than thou hypocrites.

Its fun attempting to put one down isn’t it? It takes so little brainpower, schoolyard posturing.

I believe the States are decadent and that feeds terrorism and will ultimately be the States downfall. The amount spent on an illegal invasion and the subsequent murder of 100k innocent Iraqis, same bucks spent in narrowing the rift between third world and the decadent ones would have made a profound effect in lowering terrorism. It would have defused it.

I believe the states is being run by born again evangelicals whose ultimate goal is to herd all of the world Jews into the west bank, slaughtering thirteen million, the worlds total population of Jews, minus 144,000 who will be saved due to conversion, all this to bring back Jesus.

I don’t believe in borders especially walled ones.

I have a small pimple on my shoulder, lets focus on the pimple, k?
Who wants to pop it?

When?

Just a rough estimate will do, but "ultimately" is about as impractically untenable as Revelation prophesy.

Yesterday.

You are entitled to your point of view.

Dov, you have two and a half sentences in your post that would actually make for a reasonable discussion or debate. The problem that you have which is even worse than your writing style, is that you "single issue hammer," in the words of UT.

We all understand how horrific the holocaust was (and Jews weren't the only group targeted for extermination, BTW). We all understand that certain groups would like to see Israel destroyed. We all understand that certain Evangelicals actually do have the agenda you described in mind.

However, society, politics, and life in general are a complex, intersecting web of beleif's, actions, nations, and philosophies. You are like someone who is standing in the middle of a burning forest and concentrating on a single tree that might or might not catch flame when you could be out helping dig a fire line around the entire thing.

Let's say that you are correct, and the US ultimately falls completely into the hands of whacko's who expect the book of Revelations prophesy that you have outlined to come true. Its really hard to go there, even in hypothetical land, frankly. I can envision a hypothetical US that restricts more and more freedoms, just as it is currently doing. I can go to a hypothetical land where the US government becomes ever more repressive. But you are asking us to waltz off to a hypothetical land where the US rounds up every Jew on the face of the earth, forcibly transports them all to Israel, and then exterminates them all a la Hitler, except for 144,000 lucky ones who make nice to the concentration camp guards

The logistics alone of this are mind boggling. There are so many more possible future scenarios of atrocities that are far more plausible than yours. It is an interesting idea to bring up once, but to keep whining away about it really does place you in the lunatic fringe catagory.

Helpful Hint: Do not show up on a US board and make blanket accusations of how awful we all are. I post to the boards where there are Brit's, Canadians, Aussies, etc who are quite dismayed by current US policies. They talk about the need for reform in their own countries, as well, and they don't hate me or other people from the US who post there just because we are Americans. Some of us might actually have been on your side if you were posting stuff that was slightly more in the realm of sanity and if your over-all attitude was slightly less derogatory. :eyebrow:

Thank you for your thoughtful post and recommendations.

Yes I do stand in the middle of a forest fire and focus on one tree.
I have no affect on the forest, just possibly the tree.

I beleive in what I post.

I don’t care what anybody thinks of me. Nobody knows me. (You will grow to love me.)

Many of you address yourselves as we. Have you noticed?

I have never had a need to be a part of we.

I truly appreciate your post.

Then why the heck are you here? Seriously. :eyebrow:


I appreciate your posts too.

Thank you, but I have not expressed my point of view. "Yesterday" is patently false, as the United States is still a functioning country as of today. When will our inevitable downfall occur? 5 years? 50 years?

Unless we = Jews and/or Canadians, I suppose?

Could you, in your wildest dreams about six years ago, envisioned where we are standing today? I won’t list the atrocities, I will just say, the logistics, which brought us to this reality, today, alone are mind-boggling. One example, eight trillion. There are 1000 more examples of this twilight zone. I can’t focus on the thousand. I would become saturated. Simply one at a time is how I work.

Ten percent of the world’s population are Born Again Evangelicals. I will worry for both of us, unless you are one of those who spark the flame to fry us.

Yesterday. All your bridges have been burnt. All illusions of functioning is a delusion.

Ungrounded assumption, and stereotypical, a shot in the dark and none of your business. Good try at pushing the personal button though. Try again, now that I know whom and what you are it will be more difficult. You played that card way too early.

Which, that you're Canadian, or that you're Jewish? You've said both. Is is an ungrounded assumption that you thell the truth?

I believe it was Canadian, Jewish, artist, fund-raiser. :ghost:

Ungrounded by the fact I do not define myself by religion or nationality as was implied.

I am grateful being both.

How do you define yourself?

I am flattered, thank you. (sculptor)

I am also a father a son a brother a friend, and a human being.

I am blessed with three wonderful young adults, who were once my babies. The boys are twins, twenty-one, their sister is twenty-two. I was a single parent of three babies in diapers at the same time.

I have the most wonderful cat in the world, Pookie. Please don’t tell him I called him a cat, he doesn’t know.

Thanks again for your attention.

Six years ago I had other things on my so-called mind, but, yes, as a matter of fact, I could have accepted the hypothesis of a future which has become current reality. Six years ago, the US was as greedy for oil as it is now; six years ago the US had already engaged in the first Gulf War; six years ago I saw first hand how the US military was treating its Gulf War veterans; six years ago my city had already been over-run with religous whacko's like the Focus on the Family crowd, etc., etc.

I don't know about your statistic of 10% of the world being Evangelicals, but, for the sake of argument, I'll accept it. I live in a town right next door to the epicenter of the religous right in this country, Colorado Springs. The town I currently reside in has a reputation for being a haven for Wiccan's and other pagan types. There are certainly individuals in the next town over who practice religous intolerance. I have had people advise me to move out of my town or just look at me like I've suddenly sprouted two horns and a tail when I tell them where I live. Ignorant folks next door think witches on broomsticks fly around here. Whatever.

The fact remains that no one has come and burned down my town or rounded up its residents to be burned at the stake. We still have the same rights here as the folks next door do, despite the fact that we all live in the same county. When I go down to the county court house for some reason and give my place of residence, I am not automatically shunted off into a "witches only area." The local representative to the state legislature actually resides in my community.

You are going to have a very hard time getting me to believe that this country would round up all Jewish Americans to be deported to Israel and killed. If somebody ever sets fire to Manitou Springs, I'll be sure to let you all know, never fear. I was horrified when everyone told me of the danger involved when I thought I had run across some old explosives, since I have no desire to send sparks flying at ANYONE. :worried:

To learn, to laugh, for company, and on occasion make a friend.

You?

Sometimes, a rolled-up newspaper isn't the reason for the silence but the reason for the barking.

Wonderful post, thank you.

I have been expearincing an alternative awareness.

Many of the German Jews of the twenties and thirties were affluent, assimilated and a part of the tapestry of what was Germany, an invisible minority. There were also Hasidic, Ultra Orthodox Jews who were visible. Eventually, cloned, brainwashed (but I didn’t know, as he or she was paraded past mountains of half baked rotting Jewish flesh, at the end of the war) average Joe civilian received pleasure yanking the beards off Orthodox Jews, by hand, taking clumps of flesh along with hair. At the time there were eleven million Jews in Europe. Hitler baked more than fifty percent of them. The horror was not that he fried six million; (which of course was horrible), the horror is how systematically he did it. You know all about the power of propaganda. Propaganda has become much more sophisticated today. Dr Joseph Goebbels would be pleased that his fundamental manipulations are flourishing.

Nobody knew then.

I will never forget.

I expect the BACS to attempt to fulfill the tribulations, Godly divined or not.

Because I am a Jew I was confronted in a kill or be killed scenario. I wasn’t killed.

You're welcome. I am actually sitting here debating you to night because the web site I am trying to build in regard to my own pet peeve is down, and I feel quite frustrated at the moment.

I am well aware that many German Jews were assimilated into German society and considered themselves good German citizens, maybe even before they thought of themselves as Jews.

When I was in college one of my botany professors was Jewish. I really liked this man - he was one of my favorite teachers. I took a summer field course from him that involved much time spent out in the mountains, gathering botanical specimens. One night me and him and the rest of the class (there were ten of us) were sitting on a hillside after a long day collecting and just looking up at the stars. Someone brought up the subject of the holocaust (it wasn't the prof), and I remarked that it seemed to me that the average German was trapped into silence about the entire thing. After all, I argued, they had their families there in that country, their jobs, their friends and their lives. They were living under a dictatorship and they knew the price they'd pay for speaking out. They were only human. Surely, one might at least understand if not completely forgive them for not protesting.

My professor became quite angry at my words. He said to me that there was absolutely no excuse for the silence of the German people in regard to what was happening to the Jews and other groups at the time. He said that the lives of 6 million people could have been spared, since to hear everyone talk after Germany lost the war, that everyone had been a "good" German and was horrified at what went on. He said if all those "good" Germans had acted to opposed such a terrible evil carried out by a minority then Auschwitz and the rest of the camps would never have been built. He said there is never an excuse for remaining silent in the face of such atrocities being done to one's fellow human beings.

We were all humbled by his words and sat silently for a while, staring up at the heavens.

Goebbels made sure the German citizens were aware of the death camps. It was part of his propaganda machine. They said they didn’t know. They lied. I could prove that 100 times over. Please not tonight.

The American Second Amendment was for the purpose for the American citizen to bear arms for the sake of revolting against a corrupt American administration.

I hold every American, left, right and centre responsible for current war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nobody can convince me the American citizens are ignorant, powerless, victims.

I am so sorry; you seem like a nice person. Napalm, White Phosphorus, melting babies. 100k innocent Iraqis murdered. Abu Graib, Gitmo, transferring prisoners to torture friendly countries. Illegal invasions including recently, Pakistan. This is common knowledge. When bush is hung will you say you didn’t know?

I am a second choice? Sigh.

Staring up at the heavens sounds lovely. It is minus 40c here tonight. I have two excelent down sleeping bags.

Who would you have me shoot first, and what good would it do?

I hold every Canadian responsible for the fact that their government does not break all ties with the United States, complete with a total trade embargo, and a concrete wall 12 feet high, topped with barbed wire all along the Canadian/US border.

Where does that get us?

And, yes, debating you comes in second to doing what I can to save lives in my own country, in my own state, in my own town.

Individual Americans actually are pretty powerless. Unless you have a big wad of cash to throw at the nearest politician, the status quo will remain unchanged. I spend my days sending e-mails to the entire state legislature. I contact government agencies and file formal complaints. I make my town council hold special meetings just for the issues I bring up and have local federal representatives appear before them to answer their and my questions.

I know more than I want about what goes on in this country and this world.

I get e-mails from officials telling me that I am too angry and too confrontational and to please leave them alone.

Blanket condemnations will get you nothing but enemies.

It's - 3 farenheit in Colorado tonight - a tropical temperature when compared to that of the hearts of most of politicians.

What do you think your prof would say after he reads the rhetoric you just spewed, filled with just the proper balance of justification and rationalization.

What is the difference between the scenario he commented on and the present? He was disgusted they chose powerlessness.

I will tell you a secret. I really don’t like being disliked; no matter how well I play I don’t give a sh1t persona, so there is always the struggle between speaking the truth as I see it and kissing ass. I am not well liked, but I am true to me.

Well, Dov, I think my old prof would be proud of me for being such a tiger in the face of such insurmountable odds. :rtfm:

BTW, my story took place back in the Vietnam war era, and that prof wasn't joining the anti-war protests or writing letters to the editor demanding that Nixon be impeached. Talk is cheap on both sides of the equation.

According to you, every American should whip out a gun and kill the people you tell them to or be labeled as fascist pigs.

I'm not going to play the role of your hit man, so I guess I'll just oink on out of here.

Bye now.

That may make you righteous but it doesn't make you right. :eyebrow:

I don’t need or want to be right, or righteous. I enjoyed talking with marichiko. I sense, well more than sense, she is multifaceted. Some others as well. I am here to learn and possibly make a friend, which is difficult, me being arrogant, abrasive, and self-centred. Those are my good traits. :o

You left out lousy judge of character. That really turns on the ladies.

Claiming I have no libido works for me. They have to try and prove me wrong.

Its relatively comparable to that converting a lesbian challenge thingy.


(btw, I have no libido)

For which we are extremely grateful.

How can you be an artist without it? Especially sculpture, the most sensuous of the art forms.

Facets are fine, it's the abrupt junctions that are jarring. :lol:

Shhhh, psssttt, it a ploy, don’t let them know.

I live to grind stone mmmmmmmmmmm

Ummm anybody know what this thread started out as?

LMAO :lol2: Oh, man, Wolf! You should have AGREED with the man! Pffft! Did you ever mess up on a chance to come up with a witty comeback, or what? Thank you ever so much for defending me!

Note to Dov: I have a long history of battles on the Cellar, not the least of which was being accused of having a triple personality. Multifaceted, indeed!
Oh, my, thank you all for a good laugh! :lol: