Urges? Oh, dov! :love:

Tell you what -- I'll bring this down more to your level. Regardless of tips you might have picked up while arguing that your lunchbox was better than someone else's in the cafetieria during elementary school break, discussion is not comprised of:

1. Plug ears.
2. Shout beliefs.
3. Discount naysayers with insults.

Here's a hint: try the following.

1. State your fears, concerns, or grievances.
2. State why you have this stance. Provide evidence.
3. Provide a possible solution/improvement.
4. Listen to what others have to say, counter or support their viewpoints.
5. Repeat steps 1-4 and learn from them.

You, sir, remind me of a very young Radar. Only, more religious and less libertarian.

I asked my bac neighbor if she knew anything about this plan you are privy too and it was definitely news to her. However, she will pray for your soul ;)

Originally posted by dov:There is soooo much more, but I believe I made my point with these tid-bits.


In case you missed my point, all those books are full of shit.[/quote]


Similar tidbits can be found in the OT. By your own reasoning that also makes the OT books also full of shit, right?

I'm just following the logical bouncing ball.

And in case it wasn't deduced from my previous post, I do emphatically deny there is a plan to herd and destroy the Jewish people. End of statement.

Many fools have tried to predict the future from interpreting the Bible. The future cannot be known.

The question is, WHO TOLD DOV? :rolleyes:

You have defined yourself more in line with philosphies being advocated by the current Pope and in direct opposition to so many fundamentalist religious leaders. You have a problem with the hate too often promoted by those fundamentalist religious leaders - especially in the 700 Club. For example, if I read your post accurately, then you have no problem watching Brokeback Mountain. If I read your posts as intended, then you are in full agreement with writings of Kahlil Gibran.

Thank You TW. Hatered and self promotion for personal gain were not part of Jesus's ministry on earth. Jesus was sent here to to show us the way to salvation. Unfortunitly some people have hi-jacked his message and turned it into a money machine, or worse a platform to launch their own rise to power. Some lefty's use a slogan that applys here "think globely and act localy" while I pray for the salvation of Christ for the whole world, I am limeted and contain my actions to La Crosse on the Mississippi.
Asfar as I am concerned Brokeback Mountain is a film and I will wait to see it on HBO where I can sleep thru it in peace.

Didn't you just love the way Pat Robertson had himself cut off from the mega-million dollar Holy Land Resort they were trying to build in Israel when he made one of his hateful statements about Sharon and God's punishment? Seems that God knew EXACTLY how to punish the Rev. Robertson :D

Israel will make a deal, not direcly with Robertson but some crony of his.
Ask a BAC about the end of days, and they will lie. It is part of their platform. Ask a BAC neighbour, he will lie. Any Bacs here, on this Forum, they will lie. They lie in the name of Jesus. The second coming, which they believe will happen in their generation, which began in 1948 with the formation of Israel. No specific time was given in the Bacs condensed and the rearrangements of words, sentences and chapters of the Gospels into “their” book. Israel and Jews play a sublime role in the tribulation, end of days, the apocalypse, and most inviting and alluring of all, the Rapture. They see the opportunity slipping away, with the elections of Hamas. It is crucial in their fantasyland that Jews occupy the West Bank. The scariest part now is, if it isn’t God’s will, they are powerful enough, without God, the Bacs can create the environment for the end of days and delude themselves that it is Gods will.

The individual who feels threatened by my words and the most aggrieve in their response, know I speak the truth and they cannot yet let the truth see the sunlight.

Later maybe, I will put some quotes and articles together to point out the American foreign policy is dictated by the evangelicals.

How do I know? I study.

The lives of my family, community and me are at stake.

I am tired finally and going to close my eyes.

Wake me if you can.

Dov, Does this mean that you will go away and stop asking questions that nobody's even herd of. We have tried to answer you but all you can do is insult us, christain, jew, agnostic, pagon, and atheist aliike. I can not speak for my friends here in the celler but I am tired of you, if you cannot play nice go play someplace else. Thank You for Shareing

How many millions carry this secret again Dov? It must be the biggest, most amazing conspiracy ever developed, that they can share this secret amongst themselves and not allow the truth out.

You say it's published in their book or something?

Even when I briefly considered myself B.A.C. for 3 months at age 13, they didn't let me in on the secret!!! It must be a very closely guarded thing or something.

it hurts me, inside, but as a good Christian I cannot hide this darkness (which is really light) much longer. dov speaks the truth and each and every day it hurts me to lie to those that are not born again about the plan that was put into effect decades ago. Israel is the key and it is why the US fights and must continue to fight even as the hamas threatens to shorten the already brief window we have to make things right, to align all events in the world.

I will pray for you, dov, and your family. I am sorry, but we are only doing what we must do and as the bible tells us all.

even though the secret we keep safe is important, I feel it no longer matters that we hold it quietly because events have already progressed well enough in our favor that there is no stopping what has been put into motion. all bacs must confess so that they might be free of lies when their end comes, which is really simply our great beginning.

god bless you, dov.

So, is imprint dov, or is s/he zooming him? I'd say it's about 50/50.

Let the battle royale begin! There can be only one!!!

Working the profession you do, I'm sure you know it could very well be both.

dov - any chance you read Dan Brown's books?? The conspiracy theory you attribute to the BAC's of the world sounds eerily like the "Iluminati" in Brown's books...
I have never heard of the genocide of the Jewish populace to bring about the tribulation....where are you getting your information from?
PROOF, we simple people cry for PROOF.

on a lighter note - if the BAC's are capable of keeping this kind of secret think of the implications... I bet any money that Bill Clinton wishes Monica had been a BAC.

this is no battle for dov or myself. dov is simply frightened because he knows what is inevitable. have you read his poetry shown here? they are the sad confused words of a man who is dying to be born again. dov, I will help you and your family to not be afraid. dov, do not drown your sorrow in rain or wine. walk away from the thickness of night and into the light. please read the bible. let me help you listen to truth!

I have head the only book that matters on the subject "The Holy Bible-KJV" backwards and forwards. I cannot figure out the question as posed by dov or imprint. It says to beware of false teachings and prophets in the end times. The present President of Iran has said that he in going to nuke Israel. Based on past actions of the Israeli government, Iran will lose their nuke plant soon.
Color me a disbeliever, but can you name your sources please?

What does it say backwards?

The end is nigh?

You are mistaken. There was a coalition of parties proposing this resort complex and the Israelis made it very clear that Robertson personally and none of his companies were to have anything further to do with the negotiations or to participate in any profits. There will be nothing further discussed until he is gone gone gone, and Robertson's insincere apology didn't get him anything. They delivered a kick in the nuts to that blowhard biggot, and I'd expect nothing else of any Sabra.

And Dov, Robertson is no more the spokesman and poster child of the Evangelicals in this country than you are of The Cellar. Thank God.

What's God got to do with it?

I'm sure Dov will tell us, put on your boots :rolleyes:

Da Vinci Code is FICTION, and written as FICTION. Come on dov/imprint or what ever personality you are using at the moment give us something we can use as a basis for examination, not some story albeit good about the end times. I would like to discuss this with you cellar style, instead of name calling, and talk of secret societies aka mormons, masons, iluminiti, whatever. We enjoy lively debate here, so debate don't accuse.

Well, I googled the question, and yeah, there is a contingent of whacko's who espouse the beliefs Dov has outlined for us. Of course, you can find a contingent of whacko's who believe most anything you care to imagine and much you wouldn't!

So, who knows? Maybe Imprint is one of those people who read all those novels about the "end of the days" and actually believes that stuff. I mean, Imprint thinks Walmart is a sterling example of free American enterprise and that anybody who doesn't have a job where they pull down at least $50,000/year deserves to be an object of derision or dogfood - whichever comes first. So, we all know how bright Imprint is.

Yeah, I think we should be concerned that we have a president who is a BAC with Messianic delusions. Its damn spooky - and not just for the Jews - for ALL of us! :rolleyes:

Fargon is correct. Dan Brown's books are FICTION. that was the point of my post.

dov - Are you refering to Dominionism?? The conspiracy theory that purports that Modern day Christian Anarchists will overthrow the US Gov't and put in place a new gov't based on the Old Testament? And then proceed to take over the world to bring about the end times?

if you want to sway or instruct you must reveal your sources...
I am happy to reveal mine - The Bible - New American Standard.

That's very interesting, FallenFairy, because you just described the blueprint the Mormon Church was guarding in the 1890's for the United States of America. We lucked out because the trigger event, namely the Second Coming of Joseph Smith to kick off the party, didn't happen as scheduled. To make the best of the situation, Church leaders instructed the faithful to hide the plural wives and Utah went for statehood instead.

um....RE: the above. have we entered the TWILIGHT ZONE yet?

i'm wondering...

If you are referring to Tonchi's post re the Mormons and Utah, Bri, the Twilight Zone begins at the Colorado/Utah border near a little town called Paradox. There's uranium tailings everywhere and cows drinking water out of settling ponds with radio-active warnings and EPA notices. Your car radio will be playing:
a) Beethoven's 5th Sympathy courtesy the magnificent Colorado Public Broadcasting Station
b) "Mamma's don't let your baby's grow up to be cowboys" on KRZX - MUSTANG Country Radio!
c) The top 40 all time greatest hits of the Navajo Nation - sung in Navajo with accompanying drums and rattles

You speed past the "Last Chance to Likker Quicker" Store and over the state line into arid, Moroni fearing Utah. 50 miles into Utah, you'll hit the first sign of human life, a town with the unlikely name of Monticello. The Bank of Zion stands prominently across from the LDS church where they won't give water from their outside tap to anyone with out of state of plates. Beer is unheard of, and bigamy is more common than any outsider realizes. Drive south of Monticello to the dry gypsum flats and build yourself a little campfire out there and wait for the Rapture. I'm predicting God goes after Monticello first.

Yup, but Mormons do not qualify as BAC unless you take them at face value that their souls will be recycled constantly back into the same family until the (men only) ones reach godhood themselves - oh never mind, it just keeps getting weirder. Just let's say that any Mormon who became BAC would be excommunicated. What I was explaining previously was that Brigham Young and his successor truly believed in a "Millenial Religion", they believed it would all be over before the year 1900 rolled around and the Mormon Church would be fully in charge of the entire USA at that point, to usher in the (their) Kingdom of God. See, you don't have to listen only to the looneys we have around right now to come up with these kinds of crackpot prophesies.

No, strictly speaking, Mormons aren't BAC, but the difference is more taxonomical than it is anatomical. The mindset is the same. Both groups beleive in a coming apocalypse of some sort where only those who believe as they beleive - the "true believers" - will be saved. Both groups are wary of outsiders and tend to be exclusive rather than inclusive. Like the lady at the world center for prayer who asked if I was "saved" and then sent me around to the back entrance when I informed her that I was Buddhist. Oh, yeah, there's always an apocalypse on the horizon somewhere. I loved Bergman's film "The Seventh Seal" and the knight who played chess with Death. Everything was supposed to go toast in 1000 AD. Better luck next time, I guess. ;)

I love going to "World Prayer Centers". The first time I toured the Temple in Salt Lake City, I got many horrified looks when I kept asking the guide what archaeological evidence they had for their description of the ancient civilizations in the Book of Mormon. They finally flustered around and told me to come back later and talk to one of their "authorities" on the subject. When I returned, I was shunted off to an office with a very pleasant man who was supposed to be a historian-cum-archaeologist and he recommended several texts for me which I copied down and bought at the Deseret Bookstore that afternoon. Most of their "evidence" turned out to be based on reliefs on the temples of Tuluum, and it's coincidental in my opinion. (If anybody cares, Tuluum happens to be one of the least ancient of all the ruin complexes in Mexico and simply could not fit into any of the Mormon timelines.) We already know that the Catherwood expeditions were in Meso-America around the time Joseph Smith was gearing up in upper NY state and he could have seen the engravings. But the main item that refutes their bogus "history", of course, is that the camels, horses, and even elephants which show up in the Book of Mormon simply did not exist in the new world that they describe and are NOT in any sculptures, reliefs, or writings - heck, the Jews in the Old Testament didn't even use elephants so how did they take them to the New World with them! As you can see, I don't go over very well in discussion with a closed society who only admits their own facts. But neither do I waste my time arguing with people who are already in possession of all the facts as far as they are concerned, I just want to understand what they believe and why because it makes me better able to analyze them instead of just over-reacting to somebody different. Afterwards, I may decide they disgust me anyway, but at least I will understand why there might be concrete reasons for my opinion.

I really don't think you can compare the Mormons with the BAC's. Both of these consider the other mutually excludable. Apocalyptic predictions are so common in the world of religions that we really can't lump together everybody who is teaching that the world is going to end and they will be the only ones saved. Even within the American sects, for instance, you can't associate the Southern Baptists with the Seventh Day Adventists, but both are waiting for the approaching Apocalypse. Remember Mel Gibson's little project about the Mayan underworld, etc.? The ancient Maya described the final destruction of the world in terms similar to Revelations in some ways; does that mean we can lump the Quiche Maya with the Jehovah's Witnesses for that reason? Nope, I think the BACs are a separate species, not really denominational. A species which can't even agree amongst themselves on all the terms and definitions.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) or Mormons, if you will, believes that if your are baptized in abstencia you will be a minor part of their church.

My X-Wife told me after 2 days of marrage that we were mormons and the classes would begin when we returned home. I was shocked and dismayed. She had gone so far as to join my church and even work with a Baptist Outreach as a counselor in the family ministry. I asked her where this came from ( I had known this woman for 20 years at this point and was still feeling shocked.)

She went on to say that my overly simplistic view of religon was based on the myth of the risen Christ and that Jesus came over to this side of the pond when he rose ( sounds contraditory, huh?). Then why are most Native American beliefs multithiestic and nature-based? One would assume that after his ministry in the Middle East he would have had some sucess over here. There's no evidence that He was here. Only the text that Joseph Smith wrote, and that is highly questionable. :ipray:

Lucky you, Fargon! That must have been quite the shock! "Honey, we're Mormon!" Yeah, that's why Mormons are so into genealogy. They wanna baptize their dead ancestors and save them. Always sounded kind of selfish to me. If that's what they really believe, why not hold a single huge baptismal ceremoney for all who have gone before us? They could have a big whoop te do over it in the Tabernacle at Salt Lake!

Tonchi, my argument is more along the lines of devout Mormons, BAC's, and fundamentalist Muslims, among many others, sharing the same closed mind set. I'm talking about a sort of xenophobic "us vs. the rest of the world" mentality that leads to closed mindedness and religous intolerance. Certainly, they all have different theologies, but those theologies all lead to the same outlook.

While I want the entire world to embrace Jesus as Lord and Savior, I know that will not happen. I just don't like the way some people try to ram their belifes and religious practises down your throat, Then get mad when you decline the offer. All I can do is show the information and let you decide what you want to do.

When my uncle finally got sucked under after more than 50 years of fighting off his wife's Mormon relatives, he started collecting all the names and dates so he could take them to the temple and get his brownie points. He's now baptised my dead grandfather as Mormon but rather balked at accepting my grandmother who was the second wife and thus not really related to him. I suspect my cousins already grabbed Granddad long ago anyway, but my uncle has to follow orders so he does. There will be no further inroads into this generation, however, because I told the momster to pass on the word to him that if they try to do that to me after I can't fight back I will leave a letter to the temple with my lawyer that states I spit on their cult and all its phoney rituals. My sister feels the same way.

Mari, ALL these devout/orthodox/fanatical/inspired-directly-by-God religions form themselves into a closed society. (Nice article about the Lubavitch Jewish sect in the latest National Geographic, BTW) They weave this exclusivity into all kinds of declarations about the coming Apocalyse, which no doubt will come SOME day, but not because they had any inside information or can execute a magic formula that will bring it on. The Jehovah's Witnesses already had a major meltdown when their end-of-the-world declarations did not come to pass and the LDS had to do a reversal back in 1898 when Joseph Smith and Jesus decided to skip their Second Coming. Almost every Christian group in existance now or in the past has been left with egg on their faces when they ventured into doomsday predictions. It might be the one good thing you can say about Islam is that they don't go there ;)

When someone truly believes that their way to salvation is the only true way, it becomes somewhat of a burden to those people because if they meet someone who doesn't share this belief, then they truly believe this person is going to suffer eternal damnation (fire and brimstone stuff - lucky I like the heat) unless they...blah blah blah.

If you saw someone was about to get run over by a truck, surely your conscience would compell you to warn them not to go there. Evangelicals generally, from my observations, feel the same way about going to hell. If they see someone headed in that direction, their consience will not allow them to sit idly by and allow it to happen.

"There's no escaping it."

I lost a very good friend many years ago because I did not know when to quit and let the Lord take over. While I don't want any body to go to hell, all I can do is present the information and pray for them in private. It is up to them to accept salvation. I just wish more BACs would take the time to read and understand the bible. Forcing people to believe does not work!

I can not let someone get run over by the proverbeable truck, but if they choose to be run over I can't do any thing but cry.

I agree...although if you believe in hell, I'd say that's where I'm going. Someone save my soul!!!

14

I don't know what all this is about herding Jews (it's easy, just open a thrift shop [/rimshot]), but I've never heard of it until now. I even attend the top-secret Christian meetings where we plot world domination.

Perhaps you're referring to the fact that every time Israel turns its back on God, he does something to get its attention again. No one is looking forward to the next occurrence, believe me.