[quote=bargalunan]:
Meanwhile you're right : this example would be stronger if the two captions were written by only one news agency. (AP or AFP, that doesn't matter).

That is all I wanted to hear. I meant one will not "use" the word looter, not sue. It is a typo - I am sorry.

Is that Hollywood enough for you?

Ok, I'm back, and it seems that the catastrophe in my back yard has sparked some tremendously high-brow discussion.

To simplify...

New Orleans is approximately 65% black, most of them are poor.

Poor people have reduced access to resources.

Reduced access to resources reduces your survivability in a catastrophe.

Blacks are over represented in the body count.

It's not rocket science, and it's not just the white man's fault.

I welcome any aid the Hollywoodites can provide, but money is only a short term panacea.

Again, UT, you want a pissy fight because you cannot tell the difference between 1) accusations of racism based in emotion VERSES 2) the politics of spin using the race card. The first is what you are doing to promote a pissy fight. I don't know why. Others sometimes blame this type of reactions on not getting laid. The second is pure logic: how politicians could play the spin game to cast blame elsewhere - to even prosper politically. Based upon how the administration and FEMA reacted, the race card has to be played. The games of politics dictate it.

The first demonstrates that UT cannot separate his emotions from a logical discussion. The second is about what people like Karl Rove are experts at accomplishing. The second interpretation is how a UT would have posted without emotional outbursts and insults.

The question was simple. The answer was simple. The only examples provided are staged press photo opportunities. However UT has made numerous assumptions to add more to that question and start a pissy fight.

The point was to step slowly towards discussing the game that Karl Rove, et al will play. Slowly because so many people will attach personal baggage; modify the question before answering it. UT does that repeatedly here. Somehow UT wants to turn this into a race war rather than point out how the spin game is being played. This 'reading only what you want to read' problem is why I slowly stepped towards the point. It demonstrates how some cannot just read a question without taking that question out of context.

Meanwhile one paragraph in the very first post said I did not believe the President was racist. That little paragraph put there to keep UT types from starting a pissy fight. The question was never about a racist president. The question was 100% about perception and how politics will be played. UT could not keep 'pissy' emotions out of a logical discussion. And that is a shame.

UT cannot see the difference between playing the race card - a political game - verses outright pissy accusations of promoting racism. His pictures demonstrate how a politician would 'play the race card' - to stay ahead of racist accusations. Especially since George Jr's poor PR performance on Friday left him exposed to accusations of racism. Somehow UT thinks those pictures prove everything we need to know. And so UT gets pissy when I suggest a bigger picture behind those pictures.

I am suggesting a logical response that spin doctors are performing. Somehow UT has that confused with outright accusations of racism. If that were true, then this paragraph (that he did not read) would not have been in the very first post There remains a big difference between what I have posted and what UT is accusing me of. He is reading his own biases into the original question and the following discussion. I am demonstrating why some people, such as UT, can be so taken by spin. Why those spin doctors are so successful. And what I suspect they are doing this minute.

But would the "white man" have reacted differently if it was po' white trash left behind in NO? That's the only question that's relevant to this race issue.

The only real question is was this a colossal cock-up by the Powers That Be?
The answer is left as an exercise to the student.

Before the discussion goes any further...we're all very happy that you are alright, TS. How did you and yours fare? Home damaged? Impact on your employment? Etc?

No cards, I'll just report some more unfortunate statements.

Former first lady Barbara Bush on visiting Refugees/evacuees/survivors in the Houston Astrodome remarked to reporters:

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this (she chuckled slightly)--this is working very well for them."

Maybe the people in NOLA are poor because it's a welfare city that encourages hanging from the govt teat over getting a damn job. Look it up.

/generalization

Right, tw, and similarly, I didn't say you were a moron, I just said your discussion makes you seem like one. Then you got all emotional and it took you 8 paragraphs to get over it. Calm down lad, you'll burst a blood vessel trying to run this weird hidden agenda of yours.

UT, you are using the same logic that you used to promote the "Mission Accomplished" war and the myths about those aluminum tubes. Again, you miss the entire topic to instead post insults. Not a single useful fact; just insults. What so changed in you from 10+ years ago? Those are eight plus paragraphs trying to get you back to the subject. Instead you only want to insult?

The topic of the thread, is "Why didn't Hollywood save New Orleans?" You don't get to set the topic, you don't own the agenda, you and I are just players at the table. You didn't establish any facts with your silly racism question either; you only wanted to post insults within a frame of your own hidden agenda.

Now, I told you that every time you bring up the aluminum tubes again, I would find another place on the Cellar where you were mistaken.

In this post, you said:
Now that Sharon has defied his own political party to withdraw unilaterally from Gaza, wouldn't you have to agree that either your characterization of the man was too extreme, or your understanding of the situation was faulty?

UT obviously can't separate emotion from his arguments or he would realize [1,297 words] 7 minutes.... [848 words] mental midget... [78 words] 98% of all problems are... [1936 words] because of christian extremists... [738 words] where is Bin Laden?

just trying to save TW some time and UT some bandwidth.

You are obviously making excellent and efficient use of your reduced access to The Cellar.

This is what I'm getting from all this: If W. helps Black people he's doing it for spin and he's a racist. If he doesn't do anything to specifically help black people he is a racist. So, either way W. is a racist? Is that correct?

Now, we must focus on the issue at hand, Gentlemen. Hollywood is always so quick to jump on helping other countries out of a jam. Additionally, many Hollywood actors are quick to place blame on our government while doing so. So why weren't they there on the drop of a hat when all this started to begin with? Do these actors have to wait for political motivation to do what they do? It appears that they waited until the Political bullshit started hitting the fan until any of the big hitters came into play. Of course, I could be wrong. I am limited on news sources.

Why do you think they weren't?

I'm asking the fucking questions around here!

If I had to guess, I would say initially there was nothing political so they had no reason to become involved. It was just a hurricane and people were dying. As time passed, an opportunity to assault the administration presented itself while at the same time providing them with the opportunity to make themselves look the part of the hero. That is just my guess though.

BTW, Monkey, one of my favorite SNL skits is "Toilet Monkey-Monkey Hate Clean"

Classic example of a useful post - it provides the numbers.

Sean Penn brought his personal photographer and an entourage of golf clappers to watch him paddle a leaky boat full of equipment (no room for ppl) around. That kind of thing takes organization -- I don't blame him for being a couple hours late to the party. Plus, getting to where the news cameras are takes some doing, too. What's the point of helping if the world doesn't see you doing it, really?

I'm frankly more concerned and enraged by the preventable death and misery caused by the late arrival of FEMA's "arc of relief" and the lack of urgent, powerful federal response, than Sean Penn's relief efforts. He's a private citizen. I'm not paying Sean Penn's salary and not requiring his accountability.

Maybe if the news cameras aren't there, people like NICOTINEGUN will assume they aren't doing anything, and accuse them of hypocracy.

So the point is about whether their effort is validated, not whether they actually help the situation.

But warch is right, it's not about private citizens attention-whoring. It's about the government's response. And FEMA has responded poorly, probably costing lives. But while we're casting blame (which started almost before the first body was pulled out of the water), let's give a portion to the obstructionists. They initially denounced FEMA as an evil Republican police-state tool designed solely to bug the phones of homosexuals under the guise of protecting us from Martian attack. These are the same people wondering why FEMA isn't wielding more power now.

Really? Then you should post them over here, where your language would fit in better.

Or, if you're just showing your frustration at not getting the answer you expected, perhaps you could ease your discomfort by signing off.

Or, I could send you a tape of the Oprah episode I watched last night. Zero political content, 100% heart rending drama. "Hollywood" people, dressed in non-fancy clothes loading trucks (along with and indistinguishable from numerous other non celebrites), and handing out food in some kind of soup line, and doing what celebrities do best: drawing attention to themselves. And in the process, drawing attention to what they want to say or show. But precious little of what I've seen has been needlessly political.

Or, if you're using a semi-silly question to stir the shit and babble on according to your own agenda, then the answers to your inquiries are largely irrelevant. Which is how I treat the large majority of your posts, based on your tone.

No, the point is that NICOTINEGUN has no idea about who has done what, except for the ones the press chooses to cover. I could just as easily ask why he hasn't donated to the Red Cross.Exactly.
What the hell are you talking about? FEMA isn't Homeland Security. It's a preexisting agency that was partially dismantled when it was merged with Homeland Security.

USA struck by another hurricane : Céline Dion

All my prayers are for you :(

She already sank the Titanic !

Sean Penn is in the entertainment business. Therefore he did good. Are you not entertained?

LMAO, bargalunan! You know, you're OK for a foreigner! :lol2:

I've got the Titanic beat......only 400 women went down on the Titanic. :headshake

PFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!! :lol:

Why do I think that "arc" might just be more like a yellow stream?

Sale on asbestos undies in aisle 5!!!!

I somehow doubt a US president would be so blatantly racist- even icky thicky Dubya isn't THAT stupid.

if anything Kanye West and his celebrity ilk are more to blame- why didn't he hire a fleet of water tankers and stretch Hummers filled with food, gather up all of his hood-mates, and race down there to help out? No, he got on TV in his fancy duds, with all of his buds, and flamed the Pres from nice, safe SoCal. Typical. The only person more hypocritical is Bono. We pay these people millions to stand in front of cameras, freak out when one of them goes to a movie premiere, then expect them to not puff up for the media, roll up their sleeves and go help out the little guy. Yeah, right.

Maybe if the media didn't have an audience of no-minds eagerly awaiting the next pearl of wisdom from Rocket Scientologist Tom Cruise, or Julia Roberts, these idjits woud be forced to go lend a hand in person to get airtime.

PS- I am Canadian, and I have to say that we should eject Celine over the Atlantic. What a maroon. Did someone let her go out again without her Prozac???????

People keep saying that...and he keeps proving them wrong. :headshake

[quote=BigV]Or, if you're just showing your frustration at not getting the answer you expected, perhaps you could ease your discomfort by signing off.

V are you really this anal? I see you dont' respond to humor at all. There is no discomfort, thank you. Stop being such an Anal Andy and smile.

[quote=HappyMonkey]No, the point is that NICOTINEGUN has no idea about who has done what, except for the ones the press chooses to cover. I could just as easily ask why he hasn't donated to the Red Cross.

Okay, I'll spell it out for you Mr. Monkey: don't go on national television and talk about how the U.S. needs to do this and that for this country and that country and bash the administration and then do nothing when something happens in your own country.
My problem is not with rich people who do nothing. My problem is with these rich people that chomp at the bit when something in another country happens and they organize media campaigns bashing the administration, but then they don't say a word when something happens here until it becomes political.
I feel for all those people. I think more should have been done, but you didnt' hear a peep from Hollywierd until it became a political/racial thing. That is the issue.

Wha...? :mg:

Say, can I be resident vice-president? I am fully prepared to pick up the reins of power whenever your modem goes down.

Just a thought.

Don't joke about such a serious topic. I live over the Atlantic !

I liiiiiiiike Bono's songs. :biggrin:
In the name of love, Van Diemen's land, I still haven't found what I'm looking for (gospel one)...

I think he's famous enough and has nothing to prove. I feel him sincere when he involves himself in a humanitarian purpose.

You have no idea when or what they did.

After watching the video at the bottom of this site, I may agree. Cutting communication lines? Turning aid away? WTF?

Senior Gun obviously didnt see the GIGANTIC Documented, internationally broadcast ('cept in the mideast apparently)shocking, awing truth that in New Orleans, celebrity crooner and comic actor Harry Connick Jr. responded more quickly and effectively last Thurdsay than FEMA and the red cross.
Gun has not seen the level of aid and fundraising that's occured from individual, corporations and yes, big liberal celebrities.

So his outrage is lame.

I will say this about Kanye- He made his statement on Friday, the day that the federal response began to kick in. Correct or not, given the horror and emotion of the preceeding 5 days, I can see how he would form his opinion.

The Red Cross was ready with food and water on pallets almost immediately. The Louisiana Dept. of Homeland Security -- a state version, not the feds -- told them they couldn't bring it to the Superdome or convention center. Why? They didn't want to create 'magnets' out of those places.

Source: The vast right wing conspiracy

Ooops, bet the left didn't mean for that to get out.

Well, UT, if TW ever missed an opportunity to demonstrate he's an ass, or Marichiko that she's an assistant one, it was likely because their servers were down. What a pair of unspeakables.

That seems to be a recurring theme across the board. No aid should be given because it might attract people to use it. Like the C-130s full of food for airdrops that remain grounded because they think dropping the food will cause riots.

Clarification: Sir, I am no assistant ass, I am an ass.

Thank you. :eyebrow:

marichiko, if I may?
The long version, given UG's demonstrated affinity for the language.



(I, however am merely the ass pro tempore.)

Read about the real asses here.

Wow! Great link, HM! What an appalling story written by two visitors to New Orleans. How damning are their words. Enough said.

Purhaps this has already been addressed in this thread, so I'll just reiterate the obvious.

Why didn't Hollywood save NO, or better put why did it take Hollywood so long to save NO? Becuase it took them that long to figure out how to capitalize on this disaster. Any celebrity worth their weight in helping would be better doing it on the sly. When you drag a shit-load of cameras, and production crews with you, your efforts become suspect and smacks of self-promotional material. It happens all the time. Being a celebrity is a desease. They need the spotlight. If they want to truely help, shut the cameras off, push the producers out of the boat and pack it full of food and water. Right now everyone is cashing in on this situation from Richard Simmons, Sean Penn, to President bush and Channey.

Historical story of interest:

One late night a fire broke out on the Paramount back lot. William Shatner was first on the scene. Seeing the fire, he rushed to a phone. Only he wasn't calling the studio fire deparment, but his publicist and a photographer. When they arrived, he then called the studio FD and then lent a hand putting out the fire. Lots of good pub shots of him fighting the fire along side the professionals. The building/set invovled in the fire was a complete loss btw. That's it in a nut shell.

[quote=NICOTINEGUN]I'll laugh when I see it. Otherwise, laughing at your posts is just mean.

Emphasis mine, edited for clarity.

Exactly. The only ones you hear about are the ones who did have media coverage. But asking why Hollywood in general didn't respond before FEMA did is like me asking why Hobbs and NICOTINEGUN haven't contributed to the Red Cross.

Cutting communications lines is why I have been asking, "Why?" for so long. The only logical reason I can find is that the Sheriff of Jefferson Parish was getting relief and rescue organized himself because FEMA was doing nothing for three days. For example, a private citizen organized a flotilla of 500 shallow water boats per a request directly from the Jefferson parish sheriff. The NYPD arrived with something like 400 officers - again on a direct request from the Jefferson Parish sheriff. FEMAs actions to stop 'third party' requests may have been s to cut the communication lines from Jefferson Parish. This would be consistent with the attitude and competence of Michael Brown, Director of FEMA. Michael Brown is a benchmark example of political appointees by management that has not a clue.

What is woefully obvious in the Thursday night Ted Koppel interview was that FEMA was still planning rescue and relief operations. Planning - not executing. Why FEMA would cut communications cables? Maybe because Brownie assumed he could do it and not get blamed. After all, Michael Brown - "Brownie" - is George Jr's man.

More refusal of individual assistance.

Speaking from proudly, deeply in the left, I want it ALL out. To recycle a quote, Bring it ON! Lets learn where the mayor screwed up, what the governor did wrong, where the other government employees failed to do their jobs adequately. Democrats, republicans, independents, whatever. The only politicians I see calling for anindependent(not lead by members of congress or fed admin itself) investigation are democrats, I believe Clinton suggested this on his Superdome visit. And there may be a few republicans up for re-election willing to stand up to independent investigation- if you know of any, name them.

But certainly not Bush. He'll investigate himself. That is telling. He doesnt want to play "the blame game". Me neither, I want accountability and to learn how to design a better response for the next natural disaster or god forbid, enemy attack, so that our body count might be less than 10K.

Really, even Kofi Annan had the guts to accept responsibility for hiring crooks and incompetents.

I also love the idea of blaming 'Hollywood' for not responding fast enough.
1) They have probably done things you have not heard about.
2) If they did something good and publicized it so that you did hear about it, you would of course accuse them of grandstanding.
3) It isn't their f**cking job. It's the job of the lawyer that Bush appointed as head of FEMA, instead of someone with actual disaster management experience.
4) Is this good enough for you?

John Gibson, on O'Reilly, just told somebody he was "unjustly playing the race card." I think he was correct to call the guy on it.

Wow. I just read HM's link on more "refusal of individual assistance". When I heard that the Falls Creek camp was going to be used, I thought "what a great place to stay for a while". Now it sounds like a damn scary place to be. The churches are NOT going to be happy.....

Well it's not Hollywood, but Williams-Sonoma is helping NOLA with cookbook sales.